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by mlady 8y ago

itronitron 8y ago
In my view a PIP is all (and only) about management expectations. A person that is being railroaded by incompetent management can outlast them by staying positive.
- sethammons 8y ago
  The parent comment is removed, but on the thought of a personal improvement plan (pip), they are often paperwork to protect the company when they terminate you. This is not always the case, and if you can turn it around, that is fantastic. It really helps to have a manager who can help guide you. A coworker of mine was place on a PIP and, honestly, was expected to be managed out by just about everyone. However! He rose up with guidance from manager and became a _very_ productive team member. To the point now that I am very glad he is on my team and I think a big part of our latest project's success came from him. He grew a lot and is on a great path in our org now.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    Similar story here. Most PIPs do end in termination or voluntary resignation, but I have seen some engineers completely turn around and blossom under the focus and structure (and frankly, scrutiny) that a PIP provides. Sometimes people just don't know how to work or how to accomplish what's expected of them and outward observation of lack of productivity can miss the underlying cause that might be correctable. (It's still the least common outcome, of course, but it's not as rare as I first assumed.)
    - mercutio2 8y ago
      Are PIPs public knowledge at your BigCo of choice? Sounds like your (peripheral) experience has been positive, so not criticizing, just curious. I’ve always treated PIPs as something only to be discussed between manager and struggling employee. One of the most painful things for me in administering PIPs is not the “you are on thin ice, here’s a bunch more structure and documentation” part, but rather, the requirement to keep the main focus of my management energy a secret from the rest of the team. I can’t exactly say, “Yeah, [strong team member], I know it would have been way better if I’d done a prep meeting with that hard-to-deal-with team yesterday rather than throwing you in the deep water, but I was too busy making [failing team member]’s life miserable by hyping up the scrutiny and guidance so they stop breaking the team’s morale with their shoddy work.” PIPs take a lot of time and effort for managers and the unfortunate recipient of them, so it’s kind of a hard thing to conceal.
      - sokoloff 8y ago
        > Are PIPs public knowledge at your BigCo of choice? We try to have them not be. I'm an exec and have 5 tribes reporting into me for years, so I've had the opportunity/obligation to discuss, strategize, and track the outcome of a couple dozen PIPs in my org over the last decade. Leaders spending extra time and attention on team members who are struggling is no secret and doesn't need to be. (It's not like the rest of the team doesn't have any idea who is struggling.) It's only the "PIP-p bit" that is formally secret. I had initially thought of a PIP as a ceremonial formality to be processed along the path to a lawsuit-free termination. Having seen them play out over the years, I now think that's an overly skeptical viewpoint.
        itronitron 8y ago
        Is there a common performance shortfall that initiates PIPs or does it vary widely?
        sokoloff 8y ago
        Great question; I can’t think of a single, general theme as they are all over the map. Attendance, competence, intelligence, collaboration, work ethic/drive, judgment, inability to follow process, you name it. Of the success cases, I think a common/typical unifying thread was lack of good, nearby leadership (team/squad lead or even a “buddy/onboarding mentor”) intersecting with someone who wasn’t already competent, curious, and self-motivated. I view those successes as (at least partially) leadership failures that we corrected alongside the employee. This framing is both generally accurate, but importantly, also removes the “stain” for future reviews and promotions. We truly do “put it behind us.” Anything less would be terrifically unfair. We have ex-PIPers get promoted, go on to lead teams/projects, etc.

by mlady 8y ago

In my view a PIP is all (and only) about management expectations. A person that is being railroaded by incompetent management can outlast them by staying positive.

sethammons 8y ago
The parent comment is removed, but on the thought of a personal improvement plan (pip), they are often paperwork to protect the company when they terminate you. This is not always the case, and if you can turn it around, that is fantastic. It really helps to have a manager who can help guide you. A coworker of mine was place on a PIP and, honestly, was expected to be managed out by just about everyone. However! He rose up with guidance from manager and became a _very_ productive team member. To the point now that I am very glad he is on my team and I think a big part of our latest project's success came from him. He grew a lot and is on a great path in our org now.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  Similar story here. Most PIPs do end in termination or voluntary resignation, but I have seen some engineers completely turn around and blossom under the focus and structure (and frankly, scrutiny) that a PIP provides. Sometimes people just don't know how to work or how to accomplish what's expected of them and outward observation of lack of productivity can miss the underlying cause that might be correctable. (It's still the least common outcome, of course, but it's not as rare as I first assumed.)
  - mercutio2 8y ago
    Are PIPs public knowledge at your BigCo of choice? Sounds like your (peripheral) experience has been positive, so not criticizing, just curious. I’ve always treated PIPs as something only to be discussed between manager and struggling employee. One of the most painful things for me in administering PIPs is not the “you are on thin ice, here’s a bunch more structure and documentation” part, but rather, the requirement to keep the main focus of my management energy a secret from the rest of the team. I can’t exactly say, “Yeah, [strong team member], I know it would have been way better if I’d done a prep meeting with that hard-to-deal-with team yesterday rather than throwing you in the deep water, but I was too busy making [failing team member]’s life miserable by hyping up the scrutiny and guidance so they stop breaking the team’s morale with their shoddy work.” PIPs take a lot of time and effort for managers and the unfortunate recipient of them, so it’s kind of a hard thing to conceal.
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      > Are PIPs public knowledge at your BigCo of choice? We try to have them not be. I'm an exec and have 5 tribes reporting into me for years, so I've had the opportunity/obligation to discuss, strategize, and track the outcome of a couple dozen PIPs in my org over the last decade. Leaders spending extra time and attention on team members who are struggling is no secret and doesn't need to be. (It's not like the rest of the team doesn't have any idea who is struggling.) It's only the "PIP-p bit" that is formally secret. I had initially thought of a PIP as a ceremonial formality to be processed along the path to a lawsuit-free termination. Having seen them play out over the years, I now think that's an overly skeptical viewpoint.
      - itronitron 8y ago
        Is there a common performance shortfall that initiates PIPs or does it vary widely?
        sokoloff 8y ago
        Great question; I can’t think of a single, general theme as they are all over the map. Attendance, competence, intelligence, collaboration, work ethic/drive, judgment, inability to follow process, you name it. Of the success cases, I think a common/typical unifying thread was lack of good, nearby leadership (team/squad lead or even a “buddy/onboarding mentor”) intersecting with someone who wasn’t already competent, curious, and self-motivated. I view those successes as (at least partially) leadership failures that we corrected alongside the employee. This framing is both generally accurate, but importantly, also removes the “stain” for future reviews and promotions. We truly do “put it behind us.” Anything less would be terrifically unfair. We have ex-PIPers get promoted, go on to lead teams/projects, etc.