5 ms·

On the other hand plenty of people that really should have theirs taken away don't get theirs taken away, like old people with clear mental issues or people wit

On the other hand plenty of people that really should have theirs taken away don't get theirs taken away, like old people with clear mental issues or people with bad eye sight that affect their ability to see people crossing roads etc.

croon 8y ago
I don't think that detracts any from the initial point. Step one is still to initially only award licenses to competent drivers. That more can be done is (I suspect) a perpetual truth.
- jlarsson89 8y ago
  I agree, but to live up to that system those that are no longer competent should have it taken away. As far as I know(I don't drive) there is no need to ever re-take the theory test which has been revised a number of times since many people took their license in the first place or pass any kind of medical to have it renewed.
  - croon 8y ago
    > As far as I know(I don't drive) there is no need to ever re-take the theory test which has been revised a number of times since many people took their license in the first place or pass any kind of medical to have it renewed. That is correct. However, this is also true in the US. So since neither requires retaking any tests upon renewal, Swedish drivers (assuming initial premise to be correct) will always be better than their US counterparts, on a proportional decline over time on a graph. I agree that there might be something to do there, but it is again not invalidating the initial statement.
Numberwang 8y ago
Do you have numbers on these people causing a lot more than the average of accidents? Taking away driving licenses for old people is a big thing to do, especially if there is no need for it.
- jlarsson89 8y ago
  I have anecdotal evidence of old people with dementia driving and not having any idea where they are or what they are doing. https://www.thelocal.se/20170809/swedish-experts-call-for-new-rules-to-get-unfit-elderly-drivers-off-the-road https://www.thelocal.se/20170809/swedish-experts-call-for-ne... claims that they do recall licenses, but evidently not as thoroughly as they should.
  - Numberwang 8y ago
    I'm just thinking that to my mind it is very rare to hear about old people causing accidents (injuring someone else.) Alcoholics on the other hand cause a massive amount of accidents.
    - riffic 8y ago
      > accidents Engaging in criminal behavior would be negligence, not accidental. http://justicespeakersinstitute.com/traffic-crashes-theyre-not-accidents/ http://justicespeakersinstitute.com/traffic-crashes-theyre-n...
      - Numberwang 8y ago
        Interesting article. Negligence sounds like such a mild word though.
    - solarkraft 8y ago
      They seem to be well aware of their short comings & drive overly slowly instead of risking accidents.
- tomkarlo 8y ago
  It depends how you group the age cohorts, but my recollection is that the second oldest cohort (something like 65-75) actually has one of the lowest accident rates, and the oldest one has a higher accident rate per mile but tend to drive fewer miles total (in particular, because they're not commuting to work.) So the benefits of taking away licenses from the elderly might be fairly limited compared to say, more strict testing for teenagers and tighter DUI rules. Also, a good point someone was made is that it may be easier for technology to solve the problems of elderly drivers who still have good cognition. E.g. you can make up for their limited neck flexibility with blind spot radar and backup cameras, and poor reaction times with collision detection systems. It's harder to do that for a teen who wants to drive too fast or make aggressive lane changes.
eesmith 8y ago
One difficulty is that it is much harder to live in the US without a car, while Sweden has a much better public transportation system. Take away someone's license in the US and it can be almost impossible for them to buy food, go to work, etc. I tried once living without a car for a month, and it only reason it was possible was because I lived near the center of town ... and because I bummed a few rides when I didn't feel like making the 45 minute walk home at night.
- solarkraft 8y ago
  How about a bicycle?
  - eesmith 8y ago
    Yeah, no. I used to ride a bike for errands, and sometimes to work. Then I moved to Santa Fe and saw no safe way to get around on a bike. Narrow sidewalks, gravel on the edge of the roads and (at that time) no real bike paths. It's a bit better now, but I'm talking about 12 years ago. I've since moved to a place with better cycling infrastructure.

croon 8y ago

I don't think that detracts any from the initial point. Step one is still to initially only award licenses to competent drivers. That more can be done is (I suspect) a perpetual truth.

jlarsson89 8y ago
I agree, but to live up to that system those that are no longer competent should have it taken away. As far as I know(I don't drive) there is no need to ever re-take the theory test which has been revised a number of times since many people took their license in the first place or pass any kind of medical to have it renewed.
- croon 8y ago
  > As far as I know(I don't drive) there is no need to ever re-take the theory test which has been revised a number of times since many people took their license in the first place or pass any kind of medical to have it renewed. That is correct. However, this is also true in the US. So since neither requires retaking any tests upon renewal, Swedish drivers (assuming initial premise to be correct) will always be better than their US counterparts, on a proportional decline over time on a graph. I agree that there might be something to do there, but it is again not invalidating the initial statement.

Numberwang 8y ago

Do you have numbers on these people causing a lot more than the average of accidents? Taking away driving licenses for old people is a big thing to do, especially if there is no need for it.

jlarsson89 8y ago
I have anecdotal evidence of old people with dementia driving and not having any idea where they are or what they are doing. https://www.thelocal.se/20170809/swedish-experts-call-for-new-rules-to-get-unfit-elderly-drivers-off-the-road https://www.thelocal.se/20170809/swedish-experts-call-for-ne... claims that they do recall licenses, but evidently not as thoroughly as they should.
- Numberwang 8y ago
  I'm just thinking that to my mind it is very rare to hear about old people causing accidents (injuring someone else.) Alcoholics on the other hand cause a massive amount of accidents.
  - riffic 8y ago
    > accidents Engaging in criminal behavior would be negligence, not accidental. http://justicespeakersinstitute.com/traffic-crashes-theyre-not-accidents/ http://justicespeakersinstitute.com/traffic-crashes-theyre-n...
    - Numberwang 8y ago
      Interesting article. Negligence sounds like such a mild word though.
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    They seem to be well aware of their short comings & drive overly slowly instead of risking accidents.
tomkarlo 8y ago
It depends how you group the age cohorts, but my recollection is that the second oldest cohort (something like 65-75) actually has one of the lowest accident rates, and the oldest one has a higher accident rate per mile but tend to drive fewer miles total (in particular, because they're not commuting to work.) So the benefits of taking away licenses from the elderly might be fairly limited compared to say, more strict testing for teenagers and tighter DUI rules. Also, a good point someone was made is that it may be easier for technology to solve the problems of elderly drivers who still have good cognition. E.g. you can make up for their limited neck flexibility with blind spot radar and backup cameras, and poor reaction times with collision detection systems. It's harder to do that for a teen who wants to drive too fast or make aggressive lane changes.

eesmith 8y ago

One difficulty is that it is much harder to live in the US without a car, while Sweden has a much better public transportation system. Take away someone's license in the US and it can be almost impossible for them to buy food, go to work, etc. I tried once living without a car for a month, and it only reason it was possible was because I lived near the center of town ... and because I bummed a few rides when I didn't feel like making the 45 minute walk home at night.

solarkraft 8y ago
How about a bicycle?
- eesmith 8y ago
  Yeah, no. I used to ride a bike for errands, and sometimes to work. Then I moved to Santa Fe and saw no safe way to get around on a bike. Narrow sidewalks, gravel on the edge of the roads and (at that time) no real bike paths. It's a bit better now, but I'm talking about 12 years ago. I've since moved to a place with better cycling infrastructure.