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You can't just blanket say everything is irrelevant because it doesn't fit your narrative. If he reported the system wasn't working, why would he continue using

by dewski 8y ago

You can't just blanket say everything is irrelevant because it doesn't fit your narrative. If he reported the system wasn't working, why would he continue using it especially in a known problematic area?

txcwpalpha 8y ago
Because he was assured by Tesla that it was working, and there was no problem. They were clearly wrong. As for the relevance: sure I can. My post about Tesla's contradiction has no relevance on what kind of autopilot it was. Tesla denied there was an issue, contradicted themselves by then saying there is an issue, and now is casting blame on the user for that issue. That's not acceptable. It would be unacceptable if we were talking about windshield wipers, or tires, or door locks, or the fucking clock on the dashboard. It is all about Tesla's denial of the issue and contradiction of themselves, and the type of autopilot is completely irrelevant.
- lavezzi 8y ago
  > Because he was assured by Tesla that it was working, and there was no problem. They were clearly wrong. This doesn't hold up if you refer back to the comment that states he contacted them 7-10 times.
- dewski 8y ago
  Nobody was forcing him to use the feature if he knew it wasn’t working as intended on that particular stretch of road. My issue with your statements are you’re shifting 110% of the blame to Tesla when that isn’t remotely the case.
  - Analemma_ 8y ago
    And my issue with your statements is that you're trying to have it both ways: you're claiming both that "there is no problem" and "Tesla told him about the problem so it's his fault". You have to pick one.
    - dewski 8y ago
      Nowhere do I say there is no problem so I’m not sure why you’re quoting that. I acknowledge there may be a problem since he shouldn’t have been using autopilot on that known problematic strip of road.
      - factsaresacred 8y ago
        > he shouldn’t have been using autopilot on that known problematic strip of road. Tesla don't make preconditions on where to use their autopilot. How many Tesla's discover a new 'problematic' strip of road each day? Is every first Tesla to drive down a new road to become a crash-test dummy when it turns out the autopilot just can't handle that next bend in the road? It's absurd to think so. The product is not fit for purpose. I'm confident the law would agree.
        dewski 8y ago
        Sure they do, it isn’t enabled 100% of the time. It only enables it when it has the confidence it can perform its task. There are plenty of times where it wouldn’t be available to me for various reasons, either road conditions or weather conditions.
- theclaw 8y ago
  There's a difference between "couldn't find a problem" and "no problem". He went to them multiple times and they couldn't reproduce the problem. Sounds fairly standard. I'd be surprised if you can cite them saying there is definitely no problem.
Twisell 8y ago
Because it’s on his daily commuting path? If the autopilot globallly function well and give him added security why should he disconnect it? But if the car consistently swerve toward the barrier in certains circumstances, doesn’t it increase the probability of a crash because it programmatically increase risk of accident in an otherwise safe situation. And then isn’t Tesla culpright of not treating bug report appropriately?
- dewski 8y ago
  Based on his complaints I don’t see how we can infer it gave him added security which would warrant continued use. If I knew a tool I used around the house wasn’t working completely as advertised I wouldn’t continue using the feature that wasn’t working for me. As a beta user of bank software where clicking transfer money ended up sending twice as much, wouldn’t it be my fault if I did it 7 more times when I acknowledged its behavior even if it wasn’t as advertised? I realize my examples are hard to compare to this specific situation, but the software is opt in and is littered with disclaimers because it’s not a level 3+ autonomous vehicle.
  - Twisell 8y ago
    As I see it it’s a minor bug with horrible consequences. What is shocking is not the bug itself, nor the lack of a quick bugfix, but inability to acknowledge the problem and lack of basic and sincere human empathy. To quote Tesla statement "We empathize with Mr. Huang's family,(...), but the false impression that Autopilot is unsafe will cause harm to others on the road." and the last sentence is by far the worst "The reason that other families are not on TV is because their loved ones are still alive." Seriouly the most urgent thing to do for Tesla is maybe to fire the head of PR. How can anybody in his right mind have vetted this last sentence?
    - ScottBurson 8y ago
      > How can anybody in his right mind have vetted this last sentence? Agreed. Unfortunately, Elon himself probably wrote that.
  - 8y ago

by dewski 8y ago

txcwpalpha 8y ago

Because he was assured by Tesla that it was working, and there was no problem. They were clearly wrong. As for the relevance: sure I can. My post about Tesla's contradiction has no relevance on what kind of autopilot it was. Tesla denied there was an issue, contradicted themselves by then saying there is an issue, and now is casting blame on the user for that issue. That's not acceptable. It would be unacceptable if we were talking about windshield wipers, or tires, or door locks, or the fucking clock on the dashboard. It is all about Tesla's denial of the issue and contradiction of themselves, and the type of autopilot is completely irrelevant.

lavezzi 8y ago
> Because he was assured by Tesla that it was working, and there was no problem. They were clearly wrong. This doesn't hold up if you refer back to the comment that states he contacted them 7-10 times.
dewski 8y ago
Nobody was forcing him to use the feature if he knew it wasn’t working as intended on that particular stretch of road. My issue with your statements are you’re shifting 110% of the blame to Tesla when that isn’t remotely the case.
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  And my issue with your statements is that you're trying to have it both ways: you're claiming both that "there is no problem" and "Tesla told him about the problem so it's his fault". You have to pick one.
  - dewski 8y ago
    Nowhere do I say there is no problem so I’m not sure why you’re quoting that. I acknowledge there may be a problem since he shouldn’t have been using autopilot on that known problematic strip of road.
    - factsaresacred 8y ago
      > he shouldn’t have been using autopilot on that known problematic strip of road. Tesla don't make preconditions on where to use their autopilot. How many Tesla's discover a new 'problematic' strip of road each day? Is every first Tesla to drive down a new road to become a crash-test dummy when it turns out the autopilot just can't handle that next bend in the road? It's absurd to think so. The product is not fit for purpose. I'm confident the law would agree.
      - dewski 8y ago
        Sure they do, it isn’t enabled 100% of the time. It only enables it when it has the confidence it can perform its task. There are plenty of times where it wouldn’t be available to me for various reasons, either road conditions or weather conditions.
theclaw 8y ago
There's a difference between "couldn't find a problem" and "no problem". He went to them multiple times and they couldn't reproduce the problem. Sounds fairly standard. I'd be surprised if you can cite them saying there is definitely no problem.

Twisell 8y ago

Because it’s on his daily commuting path? If the autopilot globallly function well and give him added security why should he disconnect it? But if the car consistently swerve toward the barrier in certains circumstances, doesn’t it increase the probability of a crash because it programmatically increase risk of accident in an otherwise safe situation. And then isn’t Tesla culpright of not treating bug report appropriately?

dewski 8y ago
Based on his complaints I don’t see how we can infer it gave him added security which would warrant continued use. If I knew a tool I used around the house wasn’t working completely as advertised I wouldn’t continue using the feature that wasn’t working for me. As a beta user of bank software where clicking transfer money ended up sending twice as much, wouldn’t it be my fault if I did it 7 more times when I acknowledged its behavior even if it wasn’t as advertised? I realize my examples are hard to compare to this specific situation, but the software is opt in and is littered with disclaimers because it’s not a level 3+ autonomous vehicle.
- Twisell 8y ago
  As I see it it’s a minor bug with horrible consequences. What is shocking is not the bug itself, nor the lack of a quick bugfix, but inability to acknowledge the problem and lack of basic and sincere human empathy. To quote Tesla statement "We empathize with Mr. Huang's family,(...), but the false impression that Autopilot is unsafe will cause harm to others on the road." and the last sentence is by far the worst "The reason that other families are not on TV is because their loved ones are still alive." Seriouly the most urgent thing to do for Tesla is maybe to fire the head of PR. How can anybody in his right mind have vetted this last sentence?
  - ScottBurson 8y ago
    > How can anybody in his right mind have vetted this last sentence? Agreed. Unfortunately, Elon himself probably wrote that.
- 8y ago