8 ms·

Tell HN: I just wanted to say: thank you, Hacker News

799 points by d33d33 8y ago

a few years ago i posted a question: Ask HN: Chances for Restarting a Career in CS @ 30+ ? ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7997624 ) after reading all the answers and recommendations, i decided to study CS in 2015. it was quite challenging in every sense: time/money management, high drop-out rates (~80% fail or stop studying cs at my university), lack of math skills - school was far far away. now, i finished it and i can say, i definitely don't regret it. it sharpened my mind and changed my mindset in a positive way. i've got absolutely no problems finding job offers (mainly as consultat or junior software engineers (i.e. IBM)) although i am now in my mid-thirties. thank you, hn community

joslin01 8y ago
Nice job, comp sci degree is not easy but man does it set you up for success
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
antonius 8y ago
Good job. I received a degree in finance and ended up not wanting to go into banking so I went back and got my CS degree. Like you said, looking back it was definitely worth all the time and effort.
overthemoon 8y ago
Congratulations! Did you work full time while in school? Is this in the US or Germany? I've thought about school, I'd love to get a formal education, but I just landed my first job and I probably won't end up doing it.
robeastham 8y ago
Well done you! Though 30 is not that old, I've never believed that old adage about old dogs. Grit, determination, self belief and a positive outlook are some of the main ingredients required to change course in life. Sacrifice will most likely be required too if the change of course is more than 45 degrees.
jackhack 8y ago
I remember that question/conversation. So pleased it worked out. Mind sharing a few thoughts about your experience as an "older" student? Any surprises about the coursework/assignments/fellow students? Comparing my oldest child's recent university experience to mine (in the 70s) it's like a different world. Much more paper submission & grading online, much more 'handholding' and support from the instructors, more teamwork assignments, less reading. Thanks again for the followup, and congrats!!!
- samayylmao 8y ago
  I"m working on a BS in Software Development at 27. I 100% agree with the hand holding statement. It feels to me like universities are lowering expectations so students pass rather than fail them. I know one individual who is a senior in this Software Development program who doesn't understand basic concepts but his professors have been passing him. I don't think this benefits the student, school, or society. In fact, if anything it devalues education. I am curious if this is an isolated situation at my university or if this trend is more secular.
  - WonkeyMonkey 8y ago
    I've also noticed this trend, at my university and from what I hear many from the region I'm in. I don't think that it is an isolated event. In many classes attendance makes up a comparable portion of grades as tests, which means in order to pass classes you need attendance points and class assignments, many of which are "effort based", so in most cases one can fail 75% of tests and still pass with decent grades.
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      To play devil’s advocate, degrees are getting more and more expensive, making it less and less acceptable for customers to not get something for their money. If I pay $100K and dont drop out, and still don’t get the degree, I’m going to be enraged.
- 50something 8y ago
westoque 8y ago
> it was quite challenging in every sense: time/money management, high drop-out rates (~80% fail or stop studying cs at my university), lack of math skills - school was far far away. This is where a mentor I believe does a great job. I know people that had a hard time learning because they don't have someone guiding them. Some aspects, like say, async programming or memory management could be hard to grasp by yourself but when someone explains it well, then it everything starts to come together. That's why when I'm teaching I always tell people to understand the concepts first cause you'll only learn it once and it will help you understand the pieces better.
- WilliamSt 8y ago
  Any tips on finding a good mentor?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - westoque 8y ago
    Personally, the best mentor I had was my first manager at my first job. He did really well for himself now and probably could retire (he's in his mid 30's). But how I found mentors naturally was hang out at a place called Hacker Dojo here in Silicon Valley. Since they often had free JavaScript classes and meetups, I took advantage of that to make connections and eventually found mentors/friends and people in general that help you out.
    - chrisweekly 8y ago
      Cool! Hacker Dojo was created by my brother David. :)
nemild 8y ago
That's awesome, and an inspiration. And I really encourage you to find a good team (rather than just focusing on salary), it'll really level you up quickly — and set you up for lots of good opportunities as the years go by.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Jesus_Jones 8y ago
Glad to hear it worked out for you! I think there's a lot of potential for people who non-traditional students who are capable of focusing on science, math, logic, getting retrained into CS and have a good career. We definitely need more people in the field, and I'm sure you bring a slightly different perspective coming in at a little bit later age.
Profragile 8y ago
Remember selection bias. A lot of people didn't post here because they did the same thing but failed.
50something 8y ago
I am finishing my bachelors in CompSci at Harvard Extension and just got hired by Google. And I've got about 20 years on you. So yeah, absolutely, this can work! It was fun and challenging competing with top computer science students. In the long run, my organizational skills, focus, determination and world experience outweighed their raw brainpower and better memory. It's an ultramarathon, not a sprint.
- dman 8y ago
  That is inspiring!
- eganist 8y ago
  > just got hired by Google. And I've got about 20 years on you. As impressive as your achievement is, I'm equally impressed that Google finally started addressing their perceived ageism problem.
  - 50something 8y ago
    Google must be doing something right in their candidate triage algorithms. I applied for one job and they suggested another that was a better fit, which I hadn't even considered. I applied to a bunch of places and only Google seemed to perceive the whole package instead of myopically focusing on my recent education or last job. The whole process was much smarter than any other company in the interview cycle.
    - starpilot 8y ago
      Just to clarify, this is a fulltime SW eng position at Google? If so, that's a phenomenal achievement and career change.
    - mancerayder 8y ago
      Do they still weed out candidates who don't have a background in math and algorithms for roles as SRE ones? When I read about your improved triage experience, it's the first question that pops to my mind.
d--b 8y ago
Awesome. Congrats! That said, it was kind of clear from your original post that you were headed in the right direction! Hell, just reading/asking Hacker news meant you already had two feet in the community :-)
stevepm 8y ago
If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your degree?
danso 8y ago
Reading this made my day. Thank you for sharing!
kyoji 8y ago
Thanks for sharing this, I just turned 30 and started a CompSci Master's track 1.5 years ago. Very encouraging to hear your success!
aezell 8y ago
Interesting. Here I am trying to figure out what I can do to get out of technology at 40+. Congrats on finishing school!
- 6ak74rfy 8y ago
  What's your story?
- mmsimanga 8y ago
  I have just gone opposite route. I turn 42 this year and just started job in a more technical role having spent 8 years in management. I moved into management because I was a very good developer. I don't think I was a bad manager, my teams did well and won awards. However, I couldn't stomach the endless meetings and admin tasks that came with being a manager. I carried on reading Hacker News trying to keep up with the latest trends instead of moving on to reading management and finance sites. In the end, despite the ageism stories abound I decided to go back to technology. Its been 3 weeks into the new job. I am appreciating the time I have to immerse myself in the technology. Good luck with your quest.
austincheney 8y ago
Is this age and sex bias a silicon valley problem? I am nearly 40 and most of the developers I have worked with in the past 10+ years have always been older than me (aside from college new hires). They have also been 20-40% female. I have spent this time working in the Westlake, Irving, Plano technology corridor of north DFW. I would like to hear what kind of demographics people encounter by geographic location. I always hear about age and sex bias online, but I simply don't see it in my area.
- Dirlewanger 8y ago
  Probably. I would say it's possibly just the market. Companies outside of the SVs/NYCs/Austins can't afford to be as picky because the talent pool isn't as large. Also probably because the SV culture isn't as pervasive in the industry as those in the HN bubble would have you believe.
- dahdum 8y ago
  SV skews young due to startups with low seed outlay. The risk and reward tends to attract young men[1], and then the culture that results continues that bias. Established companies with good work-life balance, solid benefits, and internal advancement opportunities are much closer to your experience. 1 - Edit because I've been hammered for saying this before. Many studies have shown significantly increased financial, business, and physical risk taking in men. That's the type I'm referring to.
- tezzer 8y ago
  46 here, well employed and not worried. There are a lot of positions in Silicon Valley for older engineers. On the bias- most of the engineers who are my peers are men. The female engineers I've worked with in my 15 years in California have mostly been in project management, product management and test. Over 40 you may not get hired by any underfunded startups, but the 'old money' is still here and values experience over alma mater and 'dumb enough to work cheap'.
- eikenberry 8y ago
  > Is this age and sex bias a silicon valley problem? From my experiences a lot of SV's ageism is not really that they won't hire older workers on principle, it is just that most of their worker are young due to local conditions and like attracts like. By 'local conditions' I mostly mean cost of living, everyone I know who has lived in SV moved away when they got older and wanted to start a family.
astro_robot 8y ago
Thanks for coming back and sharing your success! It's very inspiring for me. I just graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree and debating going back for a CSE Bachelor's degree but unsure if it would be worth it.
- spyhi 8y ago
  I don't know how it is in other schools, but at mine you can get a masters in CS even if you didn't do your undergrad in CS. They just have you take the core undergrad CS courses, which is about 1-1.5 years of work. With an ME, it might not even be that long. You should look into that before going for a second bachelor's.
  - wikibob 8y ago
    Which school?
    - spyhi 8y ago
      University of Hawaii at Manoa. I'm finishing up an undergrad degrees in CS and Business (started school at 30 after time in the military, so another success story for this thread), but I have a few friends in the masters program who came from other disciplines, which is how I know about this, though it's also listed on their site. http://www.ics.hawaii.edu/welcome/academics/graduate-degree-programs/m-s-in-ics/ http://www.ics.hawaii.edu/welcome/academics/graduate-degree-...
hunter23 8y ago
You did something way bolder but I wanted to share another successful career restart story. I worked in tech startups in business roles (ops & product management) but was always excited about the engineering side. I decided to do a career restart at 32 and taught myself the basics of web development using Udacity and other web tutorials. I then went through a coding bootcamp and joined a mid size company. It's been a great ride, I've worked for about 3 years on both the front end and back end. I've been promoted twice and have started becoming assigned as lead developer on some projects. Overall, I think I'm about 6 - 12 months away from being promoted to a senior developer. As others mentioned, my strong soft skills (being able to project manage myself, communicate effectively, estimate tasks well and honor my estimates) have made me very attractive in comparison to other candidates who have been programming since they were 12 but are much more difficult to work with. The ability to "get stuff done" is underrated. Anyways, the main point is I am so happy with my career restart into programming at 32. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
- artolus 8y ago
  I am someone who has been 'programming since they were 12' and I worry about perhaps not being as well-rounded as you describe yourself. What kind of experiences that taught you the soft skills you mentioned would you recommend to someone like myself to become a more attractive engineer?
  - hunter23 8y ago
    My suggestions would be to: * take as many opportunities as you can in presenting to others. Public speaking skills are important * refine your skills in creating good product demos of your work * spend time writing concise and well structured documentation * Do some self reflection every time you get into a heated argument with a co-worker. Think about what you could have done better to prevent emotions from flaring up. The best engineers at my company are the ones who are really good at managing discussions * Make sure that any meeting you attend flows well. If people (including yourself) are meandering from the main point of the meeting then lead the group back to the main point. Take good notes. Make sure the meeting has an agenda. If it ends early then tell people they can leave rather so you can give back attendees time. If you have a shy person in the group pro-actively ask their opinion. On the same end if you have a verbose person in the group make sure to end their discussion if they are meandering. * Put yourself in your user's shoes as much as possible. Don't just evaluate a feature from a technical standpoint, but also a user standpoint. Your product manager will be happy that they can trust you to wear a "product manager" hat
pat_space 8y ago
Way to go, my friend! Best of luck in your career and life!
Ftuuky 8y ago
You have no idea how helpful to me it was reading your post. Congratulations my dude, godspeed!
wpmoradi 8y ago
This made my day, thank you! I am currently working on changing careers to CS.
jdlyga 8y ago
I love how pure Hacker News is. It's like Digg or Slashdot 10 years ago.
AIX2ESXI 8y ago
Hi, I'm longtime lurker and was compelled to create a HN account for this topic. I'm in a similar position in my mid thirties; currently struggling with a heavy course load while working full time. Most weeks I seem to get most of my work done on the weekends and a occasional week night, struggling with the math classes though. I think I'm about thirty units away from transferring to the University I work for tuition free as 3rd year student. As a sysadmin with tons of experience (rhcsa and aws certified by end of year) I'm tempted to just give up my studies and go work remote somewhere in a developing country since I love to travel. Though I remind myself an education is invaluable and that my university alumni is connected and full of prestige, I just imagine myself in Thailand making half of what I make and having a more enjoyable life as opposed to one I here in States. Most of my lower division classes have been online at my local community college, but the math classes are not online and I have a hard time following the professor's lectures and getting to class early. Youtube lectures helps with some concepts, but I think I need to supplement my college math classes with an online program of some sort or a private math tutor. Can anyone recommend some math online math courses that cover Algebra to Calculus please? Any tips that help with time management, focus and staying motivated?
- pm90 8y ago
  Please do finish your education... there seems to be an anti-college sentiment on HN, but you've put in so much work, it just makes sense to get it over with, get the damn certificate. It may not seem like much when working for private companies, but when you work with Governments (either on contracts or for immigration etc.) more paper education does matter, alumni networks are helpful. And you can go to thailand even after you get the degree :).
- elbear 8y ago
  For Algebra and Calculus have you tried Khan Academy? Their only downside is that they don't apply the concepts enough to real-world problems, but I found Sal's explanations clear enough. I also liked http://www.mathsisfun.com/ http://www.mathsisfun.com/ and https://brilliant.org/ https://brilliant.org/ although you need to pay for the Calculus content.
- dominotw 8y ago
WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
Just a life tip here, make sure you work your way up the ranks. Which means studying and learning how to manage people not learning the obscure computer language. Tech is very tough on old guys. Programmers and CS jobs start to disappear as you get older. The happy stories you'll read here are the exception, not the rule. You need to cover your bases. Good luck.
- eikenberry 8y ago
  This depends on where you live. I only really read about ageism being a problem in the valley. Locally (US Northwest) I've never seen any sign of it.
  - jenscow 8y ago
    Same here (I'm in the UK). It really depends on the age of what you know.
scarface74 8y ago
For all intents and purposes, I "restarted" my software career in 2008 when I was 34. I had been at one company nine years and stop learning in 2001. When I went back on the market in 2008, I basically had to look for junior developer jobs even though I had 12 years experience on paper - and a degree. Fortunately(?), by then I waa so underpaid, even junior developers were making more than I was so it was still a slight raise. It took 10 years, a lot of humility, and a lot of job hopping to get to an architect role and to get to the 50th-60th percentile of lead/senior developer for my local market. (After awhile your experience doesn't mean more pay if you're not a manager)
- hi41 8y ago
  This is my story too. I dropped learning and got laid off. I spent 4 months looking for a job. I joined a team that did j2ee but couldn't handle the complexity of it. Got laid off again. Spent 4 months looking for a job. Now I got production support job. I want to get back in programming but I find all the new technology so hard.
morgosmaci 8y ago
I find it interesting that you are not having a problem finding Jr SWE roles. I co-run a computer science career community (CS Career Hackers) and I often get a lot of complaints by new grads about the lack of Jr roles.
- deleted 8y ago
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veza 8y ago
Being in a similar situation (before degree), I totally agree that I need a solid CS education. BUT, given that resources like https://teachyourselfcs.com/ https://teachyourselfcs.com/ are available for free why should I waste money and time and energy on courses of a probable lesser quality, at least at my local university. The way I see it the problem is not the education itself but your credentials or reputation in front of a possible employer. So I noted down 3 ideas for myself: - build an Open Source reputation, by own projects and contributions - a stellar github account - get good at competitive programming - win kaggle competitions, hackerrank, top coder etc. - get a CS degree To me either one of the first two seem better than a degree (given that I learn CS on my own).
- zamalek 8y ago
  That worked for me until I wanted a visa. Now I am getting a CS degree.
  - veza 8y ago
    fair point, something to think about for me
  - eikenberry 8y ago
    Was it that you needed any degree or did you specifically need a CS degree for your visa? Which country was the visa for?
    - zamalek 8y ago
      USA. I'm currently on an L1B (which is difficult to get and renew, and only renews once). To get an H1B I need that degree, and it helps if it's related to the field.
  - troebr 8y ago
    In the US, the skilled worker visa (the infamous h1b) requires a bachelor's or masters, or 12y relevant work experience, or a mix of the two.
ccajas 8y ago
I'm 35 and have been working in web development since 2007, but I feel like my career has went completely off the tracks since 2015. You see, I have been under-employed or unemployed for three years and I cannot convert any interviews into job offers anymore. I also have a non-STEM degree and the prospect of going to grad school for CS or Math related courses seems tempting. I don't want to work for local small web shops forever, and prefer to see myself in the long run working at a big semiconductor firm or aerospace firm. However, time and financial issues are holding me back from trying out college again. If OP's experience is more the norm, where tons of doors open for you simply for having the right degree and preparation, what should I do to make ends meet in the interim? How can I get a job to support myself while I'm attending college, when I can't interview worth a damn? I'm hoping I can get by with a campus job, waive part of my tuition (I've also worked on campus last time I was in college).
- vancouverwill 8y ago
  See my point I added today bait internet interview skills to @ccajas. It is a whole different skill set to learn and not necessarily taught through traditional schooling but worth the effort so that your skill set can be shown in the best light. Good luck!
soupflavor 8y ago
Love this. Thank you for sharing. It is an inspiration!
zombieprocesses 8y ago
Congratulations on your new career. On a side note, anyone else a bit worried that there being a tech or economic bubble? Reading this thread, I can't help but be reminded of the dotcom bubble when everyone was getting into tech or the "I just became a realtor" craze before the housing bubble crash. Anyone maintain a list of indicators other than S&P 500 PE ratio or the interest rate? I'm generally optimistic on the economy because of the tax cuts and the expected infrastructure spending, but still, don't wait to be caught with my pants down like the 2008 financial disaster.
- vancouverwill 8y ago
  I'm always worried about that but have been since about 2012 so it is hard to know what the future holds. Best hedge plan is to live well within means and save lots so if/when there is another big crash have savings to last until the economy gathers steam again.
bane 8y ago
HN is easily one of the most valuable "tools" I have in my toolchest. 20-30 minutes a day of front page browsing and the occasional post is like having a secret weapon in my tech arsenal. The number of times topics (not just tech) have come up in my professional life that I heard about first, and usually only, on HN...and then my ability to engage reasonably intelligently on those topics because of HN is countless.
megamindbrian2 8y ago
How do you find offers when every resume submission is met with automated replies?
- bnchrch 8y ago
  You want to avoid those channels all together. Anytime you find a company that you want to work for or one with an interesting opening try to get in direct contact with someone at the company. Either at the manager level or in HR. Simply asking for time to talk about the position is enough to bypass any automated process
0xdeadbeefbabe 8y ago
I'd rather think about an interesting problem than think about career building. I thought this was a common problem, but this thread is sure different.
deleted 8y ago
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MrDam 8y ago
I made the same moves last year and have no regrets. I was 28 when I quit my career in finance in May 2017. It's definitely been the hardest thing I've ever done (System's Architecture and Computer Networks) but it's been the most rewarding. I'll be finishing Year 1 of 3 this June.

799 points by d33d33 8y ago

joslin01 8y ago

Nice job, comp sci degree is not easy but man does it set you up for success

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

antonius 8y ago

Good job. I received a degree in finance and ended up not wanting to go into banking so I went back and got my CS degree. Like you said, looking back it was definitely worth all the time and effort.

overthemoon 8y ago

Congratulations! Did you work full time while in school? Is this in the US or Germany? I've thought about school, I'd love to get a formal education, but I just landed my first job and I probably won't end up doing it.

robeastham 8y ago

Well done you! Though 30 is not that old, I've never believed that old adage about old dogs. Grit, determination, self belief and a positive outlook are some of the main ingredients required to change course in life. Sacrifice will most likely be required too if the change of course is more than 45 degrees.

jackhack 8y ago

I remember that question/conversation. So pleased it worked out. Mind sharing a few thoughts about your experience as an "older" student? Any surprises about the coursework/assignments/fellow students? Comparing my oldest child's recent university experience to mine (in the 70s) it's like a different world. Much more paper submission & grading online, much more 'handholding' and support from the instructors, more teamwork assignments, less reading. Thanks again for the followup, and congrats!!!

samayylmao 8y ago
I"m working on a BS in Software Development at 27. I 100% agree with the hand holding statement. It feels to me like universities are lowering expectations so students pass rather than fail them. I know one individual who is a senior in this Software Development program who doesn't understand basic concepts but his professors have been passing him. I don't think this benefits the student, school, or society. In fact, if anything it devalues education. I am curious if this is an isolated situation at my university or if this trend is more secular.
- WonkeyMonkey 8y ago
  I've also noticed this trend, at my university and from what I hear many from the region I'm in. I don't think that it is an isolated event. In many classes attendance makes up a comparable portion of grades as tests, which means in order to pass classes you need attendance points and class assignments, many of which are "effort based", so in most cases one can fail 75% of tests and still pass with decent grades.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    To play devil’s advocate, degrees are getting more and more expensive, making it less and less acceptable for customers to not get something for their money. If I pay $100K and dont drop out, and still don’t get the degree, I’m going to be enraged.
50something 8y ago

westoque 8y ago

> it was quite challenging in every sense: time/money management, high drop-out rates (~80% fail or stop studying cs at my university), lack of math skills - school was far far away. This is where a mentor I believe does a great job. I know people that had a hard time learning because they don't have someone guiding them. Some aspects, like say, async programming or memory management could be hard to grasp by yourself but when someone explains it well, then it everything starts to come together. That's why when I'm teaching I always tell people to understand the concepts first cause you'll only learn it once and it will help you understand the pieces better.

WilliamSt 8y ago
Any tips on finding a good mentor?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- westoque 8y ago
  Personally, the best mentor I had was my first manager at my first job. He did really well for himself now and probably could retire (he's in his mid 30's). But how I found mentors naturally was hang out at a place called Hacker Dojo here in Silicon Valley. Since they often had free JavaScript classes and meetups, I took advantage of that to make connections and eventually found mentors/friends and people in general that help you out.
  - chrisweekly 8y ago
    Cool! Hacker Dojo was created by my brother David. :)

nemild 8y ago

That's awesome, and an inspiration. And I really encourage you to find a good team (rather than just focusing on salary), it'll really level you up quickly — and set you up for lots of good opportunities as the years go by.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Jesus_Jones 8y ago

Glad to hear it worked out for you! I think there's a lot of potential for people who non-traditional students who are capable of focusing on science, math, logic, getting retrained into CS and have a good career. We definitely need more people in the field, and I'm sure you bring a slightly different perspective coming in at a little bit later age.

Profragile 8y ago

Remember selection bias. A lot of people didn't post here because they did the same thing but failed.

50something 8y ago

I am finishing my bachelors in CompSci at Harvard Extension and just got hired by Google. And I've got about 20 years on you. So yeah, absolutely, this can work! It was fun and challenging competing with top computer science students. In the long run, my organizational skills, focus, determination and world experience outweighed their raw brainpower and better memory. It's an ultramarathon, not a sprint.

dman 8y ago
That is inspiring!
eganist 8y ago
> just got hired by Google. And I've got about 20 years on you. As impressive as your achievement is, I'm equally impressed that Google finally started addressing their perceived ageism problem.
- 50something 8y ago
  Google must be doing something right in their candidate triage algorithms. I applied for one job and they suggested another that was a better fit, which I hadn't even considered. I applied to a bunch of places and only Google seemed to perceive the whole package instead of myopically focusing on my recent education or last job. The whole process was much smarter than any other company in the interview cycle.
  - starpilot 8y ago
    Just to clarify, this is a fulltime SW eng position at Google? If so, that's a phenomenal achievement and career change.
  - mancerayder 8y ago
    Do they still weed out candidates who don't have a background in math and algorithms for roles as SRE ones? When I read about your improved triage experience, it's the first question that pops to my mind.

d--b 8y ago

Awesome. Congrats! That said, it was kind of clear from your original post that you were headed in the right direction! Hell, just reading/asking Hacker news meant you already had two feet in the community :-)

stevepm 8y ago

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your degree?

danso 8y ago

Reading this made my day. Thank you for sharing!

kyoji 8y ago

Thanks for sharing this, I just turned 30 and started a CompSci Master's track 1.5 years ago. Very encouraging to hear your success!

aezell 8y ago

Interesting. Here I am trying to figure out what I can do to get out of technology at 40+. Congrats on finishing school!

6ak74rfy 8y ago
What's your story?
mmsimanga 8y ago
I have just gone opposite route. I turn 42 this year and just started job in a more technical role having spent 8 years in management. I moved into management because I was a very good developer. I don't think I was a bad manager, my teams did well and won awards. However, I couldn't stomach the endless meetings and admin tasks that came with being a manager. I carried on reading Hacker News trying to keep up with the latest trends instead of moving on to reading management and finance sites. In the end, despite the ageism stories abound I decided to go back to technology. Its been 3 weeks into the new job. I am appreciating the time I have to immerse myself in the technology. Good luck with your quest.

austincheney 8y ago

Is this age and sex bias a silicon valley problem? I am nearly 40 and most of the developers I have worked with in the past 10+ years have always been older than me (aside from college new hires). They have also been 20-40% female. I have spent this time working in the Westlake, Irving, Plano technology corridor of north DFW. I would like to hear what kind of demographics people encounter by geographic location. I always hear about age and sex bias online, but I simply don't see it in my area.

Dirlewanger 8y ago
Probably. I would say it's possibly just the market. Companies outside of the SVs/NYCs/Austins can't afford to be as picky because the talent pool isn't as large. Also probably because the SV culture isn't as pervasive in the industry as those in the HN bubble would have you believe.
dahdum 8y ago
SV skews young due to startups with low seed outlay. The risk and reward tends to attract young men[1], and then the culture that results continues that bias. Established companies with good work-life balance, solid benefits, and internal advancement opportunities are much closer to your experience. 1 - Edit because I've been hammered for saying this before. Many studies have shown significantly increased financial, business, and physical risk taking in men. That's the type I'm referring to.
tezzer 8y ago
46 here, well employed and not worried. There are a lot of positions in Silicon Valley for older engineers. On the bias- most of the engineers who are my peers are men. The female engineers I've worked with in my 15 years in California have mostly been in project management, product management and test. Over 40 you may not get hired by any underfunded startups, but the 'old money' is still here and values experience over alma mater and 'dumb enough to work cheap'.
eikenberry 8y ago
> Is this age and sex bias a silicon valley problem? From my experiences a lot of SV's ageism is not really that they won't hire older workers on principle, it is just that most of their worker are young due to local conditions and like attracts like. By 'local conditions' I mostly mean cost of living, everyone I know who has lived in SV moved away when they got older and wanted to start a family.

astro_robot 8y ago

Thanks for coming back and sharing your success! It's very inspiring for me. I just graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree and debating going back for a CSE Bachelor's degree but unsure if it would be worth it.

spyhi 8y ago
I don't know how it is in other schools, but at mine you can get a masters in CS even if you didn't do your undergrad in CS. They just have you take the core undergrad CS courses, which is about 1-1.5 years of work. With an ME, it might not even be that long. You should look into that before going for a second bachelor's.
- wikibob 8y ago
  Which school?
  - spyhi 8y ago
    University of Hawaii at Manoa. I'm finishing up an undergrad degrees in CS and Business (started school at 30 after time in the military, so another success story for this thread), but I have a few friends in the masters program who came from other disciplines, which is how I know about this, though it's also listed on their site. http://www.ics.hawaii.edu/welcome/academics/graduate-degree-programs/m-s-in-ics/ http://www.ics.hawaii.edu/welcome/academics/graduate-degree-...

hunter23 8y ago

You did something way bolder but I wanted to share another successful career restart story. I worked in tech startups in business roles (ops & product management) but was always excited about the engineering side. I decided to do a career restart at 32 and taught myself the basics of web development using Udacity and other web tutorials. I then went through a coding bootcamp and joined a mid size company. It's been a great ride, I've worked for about 3 years on both the front end and back end. I've been promoted twice and have started becoming assigned as lead developer on some projects. Overall, I think I'm about 6 - 12 months away from being promoted to a senior developer. As others mentioned, my strong soft skills (being able to project manage myself, communicate effectively, estimate tasks well and honor my estimates) have made me very attractive in comparison to other candidates who have been programming since they were 12 but are much more difficult to work with. The ability to "get stuff done" is underrated. Anyways, the main point is I am so happy with my career restart into programming at 32. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

artolus 8y ago
I am someone who has been 'programming since they were 12' and I worry about perhaps not being as well-rounded as you describe yourself. What kind of experiences that taught you the soft skills you mentioned would you recommend to someone like myself to become a more attractive engineer?
- hunter23 8y ago
  My suggestions would be to: * take as many opportunities as you can in presenting to others. Public speaking skills are important * refine your skills in creating good product demos of your work * spend time writing concise and well structured documentation * Do some self reflection every time you get into a heated argument with a co-worker. Think about what you could have done better to prevent emotions from flaring up. The best engineers at my company are the ones who are really good at managing discussions * Make sure that any meeting you attend flows well. If people (including yourself) are meandering from the main point of the meeting then lead the group back to the main point. Take good notes. Make sure the meeting has an agenda. If it ends early then tell people they can leave rather so you can give back attendees time. If you have a shy person in the group pro-actively ask their opinion. On the same end if you have a verbose person in the group make sure to end their discussion if they are meandering. * Put yourself in your user's shoes as much as possible. Don't just evaluate a feature from a technical standpoint, but also a user standpoint. Your product manager will be happy that they can trust you to wear a "product manager" hat

pat_space 8y ago

Way to go, my friend! Best of luck in your career and life!

Ftuuky 8y ago

You have no idea how helpful to me it was reading your post. Congratulations my dude, godspeed!

wpmoradi 8y ago

This made my day, thank you! I am currently working on changing careers to CS.

jdlyga 8y ago

I love how pure Hacker News is. It's like Digg or Slashdot 10 years ago.

AIX2ESXI 8y ago

Hi, I'm longtime lurker and was compelled to create a HN account for this topic. I'm in a similar position in my mid thirties; currently struggling with a heavy course load while working full time. Most weeks I seem to get most of my work done on the weekends and a occasional week night, struggling with the math classes though. I think I'm about thirty units away from transferring to the University I work for tuition free as 3rd year student. As a sysadmin with tons of experience (rhcsa and aws certified by end of year) I'm tempted to just give up my studies and go work remote somewhere in a developing country since I love to travel. Though I remind myself an education is invaluable and that my university alumni is connected and full of prestige, I just imagine myself in Thailand making half of what I make and having a more enjoyable life as opposed to one I here in States. Most of my lower division classes have been online at my local community college, but the math classes are not online and I have a hard time following the professor's lectures and getting to class early. Youtube lectures helps with some concepts, but I think I need to supplement my college math classes with an online program of some sort or a private math tutor. Can anyone recommend some math online math courses that cover Algebra to Calculus please? Any tips that help with time management, focus and staying motivated?

pm90 8y ago
Please do finish your education... there seems to be an anti-college sentiment on HN, but you've put in so much work, it just makes sense to get it over with, get the damn certificate. It may not seem like much when working for private companies, but when you work with Governments (either on contracts or for immigration etc.) more paper education does matter, alumni networks are helpful. And you can go to thailand even after you get the degree :).
elbear 8y ago
For Algebra and Calculus have you tried Khan Academy? Their only downside is that they don't apply the concepts enough to real-world problems, but I found Sal's explanations clear enough. I also liked http://www.mathsisfun.com/ http://www.mathsisfun.com/ and https://brilliant.org/ https://brilliant.org/ although you need to pay for the Calculus content.
dominotw 8y ago

WheelsAtLarge 8y ago

Just a life tip here, make sure you work your way up the ranks. Which means studying and learning how to manage people not learning the obscure computer language. Tech is very tough on old guys. Programmers and CS jobs start to disappear as you get older. The happy stories you'll read here are the exception, not the rule. You need to cover your bases. Good luck.

eikenberry 8y ago
This depends on where you live. I only really read about ageism being a problem in the valley. Locally (US Northwest) I've never seen any sign of it.
- jenscow 8y ago
  Same here (I'm in the UK). It really depends on the age of what you know.

scarface74 8y ago

For all intents and purposes, I "restarted" my software career in 2008 when I was 34. I had been at one company nine years and stop learning in 2001. When I went back on the market in 2008, I basically had to look for junior developer jobs even though I had 12 years experience on paper - and a degree. Fortunately(?), by then I waa so underpaid, even junior developers were making more than I was so it was still a slight raise. It took 10 years, a lot of humility, and a lot of job hopping to get to an architect role and to get to the 50th-60th percentile of lead/senior developer for my local market. (After awhile your experience doesn't mean more pay if you're not a manager)

hi41 8y ago
This is my story too. I dropped learning and got laid off. I spent 4 months looking for a job. I joined a team that did j2ee but couldn't handle the complexity of it. Got laid off again. Spent 4 months looking for a job. Now I got production support job. I want to get back in programming but I find all the new technology so hard.

morgosmaci 8y ago

I find it interesting that you are not having a problem finding Jr SWE roles. I co-run a computer science career community (CS Career Hackers) and I often get a lot of complaints by new grads about the lack of Jr roles.

deleted 8y ago
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veza 8y ago

Being in a similar situation (before degree), I totally agree that I need a solid CS education. BUT, given that resources like https://teachyourselfcs.com/ https://teachyourselfcs.com/ are available for free why should I waste money and time and energy on courses of a probable lesser quality, at least at my local university. The way I see it the problem is not the education itself but your credentials or reputation in front of a possible employer. So I noted down 3 ideas for myself: - build an Open Source reputation, by own projects and contributions - a stellar github account - get good at competitive programming - win kaggle competitions, hackerrank, top coder etc. - get a CS degree To me either one of the first two seem better than a degree (given that I learn CS on my own).

zamalek 8y ago
That worked for me until I wanted a visa. Now I am getting a CS degree.
- veza 8y ago
  fair point, something to think about for me
- eikenberry 8y ago
  Was it that you needed any degree or did you specifically need a CS degree for your visa? Which country was the visa for?
  - zamalek 8y ago
    USA. I'm currently on an L1B (which is difficult to get and renew, and only renews once). To get an H1B I need that degree, and it helps if it's related to the field.
- troebr 8y ago
  In the US, the skilled worker visa (the infamous h1b) requires a bachelor's or masters, or 12y relevant work experience, or a mix of the two.

ccajas 8y ago

I'm 35 and have been working in web development since 2007, but I feel like my career has went completely off the tracks since 2015. You see, I have been under-employed or unemployed for three years and I cannot convert any interviews into job offers anymore. I also have a non-STEM degree and the prospect of going to grad school for CS or Math related courses seems tempting. I don't want to work for local small web shops forever, and prefer to see myself in the long run working at a big semiconductor firm or aerospace firm. However, time and financial issues are holding me back from trying out college again. If OP's experience is more the norm, where tons of doors open for you simply for having the right degree and preparation, what should I do to make ends meet in the interim? How can I get a job to support myself while I'm attending college, when I can't interview worth a damn? I'm hoping I can get by with a campus job, waive part of my tuition (I've also worked on campus last time I was in college).

vancouverwill 8y ago
See my point I added today bait internet interview skills to @ccajas. It is a whole different skill set to learn and not necessarily taught through traditional schooling but worth the effort so that your skill set can be shown in the best light. Good luck!

soupflavor 8y ago

Love this. Thank you for sharing. It is an inspiration!

zombieprocesses 8y ago

Congratulations on your new career. On a side note, anyone else a bit worried that there being a tech or economic bubble? Reading this thread, I can't help but be reminded of the dotcom bubble when everyone was getting into tech or the "I just became a realtor" craze before the housing bubble crash. Anyone maintain a list of indicators other than S&P 500 PE ratio or the interest rate? I'm generally optimistic on the economy because of the tax cuts and the expected infrastructure spending, but still, don't wait to be caught with my pants down like the 2008 financial disaster.

vancouverwill 8y ago
I'm always worried about that but have been since about 2012 so it is hard to know what the future holds. Best hedge plan is to live well within means and save lots so if/when there is another big crash have savings to last until the economy gathers steam again.

bane 8y ago

HN is easily one of the most valuable "tools" I have in my toolchest. 20-30 minutes a day of front page browsing and the occasional post is like having a secret weapon in my tech arsenal. The number of times topics (not just tech) have come up in my professional life that I heard about first, and usually only, on HN...and then my ability to engage reasonably intelligently on those topics because of HN is countless.

megamindbrian2 8y ago

How do you find offers when every resume submission is met with automated replies?

bnchrch 8y ago
You want to avoid those channels all together. Anytime you find a company that you want to work for or one with an interesting opening try to get in direct contact with someone at the company. Either at the manager level or in HR. Simply asking for time to talk about the position is enough to bypass any automated process

0xdeadbeefbabe 8y ago

I'd rather think about an interesting problem than think about career building. I thought this was a common problem, but this thread is sure different.

deleted 8y ago

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MrDam 8y ago

I made the same moves last year and have no regrets. I was 28 when I quit my career in finance in May 2017. It's definitely been the hardest thing I've ever done (System's Architecture and Computer Networks) but it's been the most rewarding. I'll be finishing Year 1 of 3 this June.