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I think more people that go to Ivies are hard workers then have so much natural ability that it doesn't require much work. Nowadays you have to be doing multipl

I think more people that go to Ivies are hard workers then have so much natural ability that it doesn't require much work. Nowadays you have to be doing multiple extra curricular activities and qualifying for summer programs, etc.

waxwander 9y ago
People at ivies mostly just had a lucky background (if you look at the statistics based on income). I really doubt they work any harder. Even side by side you're not really comparing apples to oranges if you compare the amount of work a low income person has to do to get into an ivy and the typical high income ivy kid.
- akhilcacharya 9y ago
  Eh - I could see that but there are people with lucky backgrounds at state schools as well. Most of the folks I know at elite schools grew up in very similar circumstances to myself.
- currymj 9y ago
  other than like, the children of international royalty and whatnot, you just can't get into an Ivy League school without working really hard one way or another. rich kids might go to less-prestigious private schools, but they're not getting into the Ivy League without working hard at something.
  - harrisjt 9y ago
    This is essentially what I was trying to get at. I think people have many misconceptions when it comes to different tiers of education, it might be a topic worth some research.
jonathanyc 9y ago
As someone who went to an Ivy, I don’t think so. There are lots of hard workers, especially international students from poorer areas, but there are also tons of rich kids (international and domestic) that get in because their families could afford to send them to Africa / have them be taught horse-riding. In fact, extra-curricular activities are to me to very strongly associated with middle class / upper class families. Even the not rich kids often have had very supportive families. The vast majority of students don’t take college classes in high school / decide to compete in olympiads by themselves. At the least it takes a supportive teacher or more likely a supportive parent to suggest the idea—most kids in most neighborhoods aren’t even aware of the existence of such programs.
- harrisjt 9y ago
  I was kinda excluding the people who bought there way in or have family connections, I thought about this as I was posting.
mncharity 9y ago
> I think more people that go to Ivies are hard workers then have so much natural ability that it doesn't require much work. Or not. I've been told by someone teaching introductory courses at an ivy, that a major challenge they face is that their students have had such good teachers, presenting ("spoon feeding") information so clearly, that their students now have neither the skills, nor the inclination, to wrestle with a body of knowledge and extract understanding.
heedlessly2 9y ago
If you want to get into an elite college, there are a "series of steps and little quirks" which will help you. Upper-middle class families can afford to put their kids in SAT/ACT tutoring to push their scores into the upper percentiles. They can also put their kids into summer math/science programs to help them test-out of the regular track at school and bolster their college apps. Even for parents who don't make a whole lot of money but still went to college can give powerful guidance to their children. They know what colleges are "looking for" since they've already been through the process. They know what awards to collect and extracurricular/leadership opportunities to improve their chances. Plus they can tutor their own kids, which disadvantaged/immigrants parents will struggle with.

waxwander 9y ago

People at ivies mostly just had a lucky background (if you look at the statistics based on income). I really doubt they work any harder. Even side by side you're not really comparing apples to oranges if you compare the amount of work a low income person has to do to get into an ivy and the typical high income ivy kid.

akhilcacharya 9y ago
Eh - I could see that but there are people with lucky backgrounds at state schools as well. Most of the folks I know at elite schools grew up in very similar circumstances to myself.
currymj 9y ago
other than like, the children of international royalty and whatnot, you just can't get into an Ivy League school without working really hard one way or another. rich kids might go to less-prestigious private schools, but they're not getting into the Ivy League without working hard at something.
- harrisjt 9y ago
  This is essentially what I was trying to get at. I think people have many misconceptions when it comes to different tiers of education, it might be a topic worth some research.

jonathanyc 9y ago

As someone who went to an Ivy, I don’t think so. There are lots of hard workers, especially international students from poorer areas, but there are also tons of rich kids (international and domestic) that get in because their families could afford to send them to Africa / have them be taught horse-riding. In fact, extra-curricular activities are to me to very strongly associated with middle class / upper class families. Even the not rich kids often have had very supportive families. The vast majority of students don’t take college classes in high school / decide to compete in olympiads by themselves. At the least it takes a supportive teacher or more likely a supportive parent to suggest the idea—most kids in most neighborhoods aren’t even aware of the existence of such programs.

harrisjt 9y ago
I was kinda excluding the people who bought there way in or have family connections, I thought about this as I was posting.

mncharity 9y ago

> I think more people that go to Ivies are hard workers then have so much natural ability that it doesn't require much work. Or not. I've been told by someone teaching introductory courses at an ivy, that a major challenge they face is that their students have had such good teachers, presenting ("spoon feeding") information so clearly, that their students now have neither the skills, nor the inclination, to wrestle with a body of knowledge and extract understanding.

heedlessly2 9y ago

If you want to get into an elite college, there are a "series of steps and little quirks" which will help you. Upper-middle class families can afford to put their kids in SAT/ACT tutoring to push their scores into the upper percentiles. They can also put their kids into summer math/science programs to help them test-out of the regular track at school and bolster their college apps. Even for parents who don't make a whole lot of money but still went to college can give powerful guidance to their children. They know what colleges are "looking for" since they've already been through the process. They know what awards to collect and extracurricular/leadership opportunities to improve their chances. Plus they can tutor their own kids, which disadvantaged/immigrants parents will struggle with.