7 ms·

Tough statement. I doubt you can rehabilitate a such negative term in not even 2 years.

by aluhut 9y ago

lhnz 9y ago
I don't agree with you on this. I think that the existence of the AMA itself proves that at least in some circles you can.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- aluhut 9y ago
  An AMA in a sub called "neoliberal" is hardly an indicator.
  - lhnz 9y ago
    Participation by elites in a group that might at one point have had negative connotations is a sign of it being rehabilitated.
    - aluhut 9y ago
      Participation by elites in neoliberalism was the reason why the term has a negative connotation in the first place...
      - lhnz 9y ago
        My point is "they don't participate if it's inherently smearing". They are careful about their public selves. This means that they must believe it has become defendable.
        aluhut 9y ago
        I understood you very well. But maybe we are not talking about the same "elites" because I have no idea how you get the idea. They didn't care about the connotation back then. Why should the negativity of it be relevant today? I was thinking of financial elites btw.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- asvabard100 9y ago
  Look at the posts there, it's people having fun with people who identity as neoliberal without any sense of irony. Neoliberal is a dirty word among pretty much every group of contemporary politically minded folks.
  - lhnz 9y ago
    You're not entirely wrong in that there is a tongue-in-cheek aspect. However there is also a serious tone and shared set of beliefs. Take a look at this for example: https://twitter.com/r_neoliberal/status/974992740982370305?s=21 https://twitter.com/r_neoliberal/status/974992740982370305?s... Chief Neoliberal Shill is clearly a joke, but these people do believe in the positive consequences of what they're doing.
nostrademons 9y ago
In some circles it was never a negative term to begin with. In other circles it will remain a negative term forever, regardless of what you do. One interesting consequence of the Internet is that we're becoming very aware that for every label you could ascribe to yourself, there is some group out there who holds a deep, visceral hate for that label, so deep that they wish you would just cease to exist. I guess this was probably the case beforehand, but without instantaneous global communication, you generally weren't aware of the people who hated you. I remember that when I was growing up, terms like "American", "patriotic", "tolerant", and "generous" were unambiguously good, but now for each of those there is some group who considers them a dog-whistle for people they despise.
- aluhut 9y ago
  I don't talk about extremists. The term itself was hardly known/in use to the general public before the crash 2008 and occupy. Since then it was only known as basically a different word for greed. As another commenter (who obviously decided to delete his comment) wrote here, I also doubt that a re-branding will ever be successful. It's not like coming up with a new term in economy is something hard to do.
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    I doubt any of that matters to Stripe, whose customer base consists of small-to-midsize businesses who need to accept payments over the Internet, oftentimes for marketplace-based business models. By virtue of the problem that they want solved, this group is going to skew towards free markets, free trade, globalization, and all the tenets that r/neoliberalism embraces. They may not themselves want to adopt the label (particularly in front of their own customers, who bring their own baggage associated with it), but they'll be sympathetic to the ideas. Also, the term is still not known/in use to the general public. The set of people who are politically active via Occupy, Tea Party, Trumpism, #Indivisible, etc. is a small subset of all people, and relatively disjoint from the set of people with successful Internet-based businesses.
    - 9y ago

Tough statement. I doubt you can rehabilitate a such negative term in not even 2 years.

by aluhut 9y ago

Tough statement. I doubt you can rehabilitate a such negative term in not even 2 years.

lhnz 9y ago

I don't agree with you on this. I think that the existence of the AMA itself proves that at least in some circles you can.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
aluhut 9y ago
An AMA in a sub called "neoliberal" is hardly an indicator.
- lhnz 9y ago
  Participation by elites in a group that might at one point have had negative connotations is a sign of it being rehabilitated.
  - aluhut 9y ago
    Participation by elites in neoliberalism was the reason why the term has a negative connotation in the first place...
    - lhnz 9y ago
      My point is "they don't participate if it's inherently smearing". They are careful about their public selves. This means that they must believe it has become defendable.
      - aluhut 9y ago
        I understood you very well. But maybe we are not talking about the same "elites" because I have no idea how you get the idea. They didn't care about the connotation back then. Why should the negativity of it be relevant today? I was thinking of financial elites btw.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
asvabard100 9y ago
Look at the posts there, it's people having fun with people who identity as neoliberal without any sense of irony. Neoliberal is a dirty word among pretty much every group of contemporary politically minded folks.
- lhnz 9y ago
  You're not entirely wrong in that there is a tongue-in-cheek aspect. However there is also a serious tone and shared set of beliefs. Take a look at this for example: https://twitter.com/r_neoliberal/status/974992740982370305?s=21 https://twitter.com/r_neoliberal/status/974992740982370305?s... Chief Neoliberal Shill is clearly a joke, but these people do believe in the positive consequences of what they're doing.

nostrademons 9y ago

In some circles it was never a negative term to begin with. In other circles it will remain a negative term forever, regardless of what you do. One interesting consequence of the Internet is that we're becoming very aware that for every label you could ascribe to yourself, there is some group out there who holds a deep, visceral hate for that label, so deep that they wish you would just cease to exist. I guess this was probably the case beforehand, but without instantaneous global communication, you generally weren't aware of the people who hated you. I remember that when I was growing up, terms like "American", "patriotic", "tolerant", and "generous" were unambiguously good, but now for each of those there is some group who considers them a dog-whistle for people they despise.

aluhut 9y ago
I don't talk about extremists. The term itself was hardly known/in use to the general public before the crash 2008 and occupy. Since then it was only known as basically a different word for greed. As another commenter (who obviously decided to delete his comment) wrote here, I also doubt that a re-branding will ever be successful. It's not like coming up with a new term in economy is something hard to do.
- nostrademons 9y ago
  I doubt any of that matters to Stripe, whose customer base consists of small-to-midsize businesses who need to accept payments over the Internet, oftentimes for marketplace-based business models. By virtue of the problem that they want solved, this group is going to skew towards free markets, free trade, globalization, and all the tenets that r/neoliberalism embraces. They may not themselves want to adopt the label (particularly in front of their own customers, who bring their own baggage associated with it), but they'll be sympathetic to the ideas. Also, the term is still not known/in use to the general public. The set of people who are politically active via Occupy, Tea Party, Trumpism, #Indivisible, etc. is a small subset of all people, and relatively disjoint from the set of people with successful Internet-based businesses.
  - 9y ago