5 ms·

My view is the opposite - Poles are more honest (which usually translates to - more whiney) at their jobs than Western people, where centuries of capitalism hav

by p0ints 9y ago

My view is the opposite - Poles are more honest (which usually translates to - more whiney) at their jobs than Western people, where centuries of capitalism have taught people that it's best to keep your thoughts to yourself and pretend to be happy/content. Poles have yet to internalize this lesson.

b0rsuk 9y ago
It depends what you mean. To Poles Americans look quite fake with their smiling mask, and adjectives ranking from "good" to "awesome". The world "beautiful" sticks out like a sore thumb when you read web frontend/design blogs. Words like that are reserved for truly astonishing works. There is no expectation that you feel great all the time. Ask and you usually get an honest answer(bragging on a job interview notwithstanding). It's not like I heard about India where I heard IT workers often don't ask questions or are afraid to admit they don't understand something. There is also no strong expectation to participate in polite small talk like in UK. Gosh, it's hard to say, I'll have to travel a bit to see Poland from outside. But leave your bike, or even an umbrella unattended for a few moments and it's likely to get stolen. If you drop money in a public place, it's very unlikely to be returned anywhere - it's seen as a windfall. Fenced houses and (multi-flat) blocks are getting VERY popular. In fact, people bring screens to beaches to separate themselves from each other (usually by family), sometimes even "reserving" spots on public beaches(they have no right). Some foreigners half-jokingly use the term "polish disease" to describe materialistic attitude of many Polish girls. Government clerks are famously unhelpful and make you do their job. Recruitment agencies are almost entirely focused on employer needs. Cheating in school is widespread and very rarely reported by classmates. You're seen as a snitch. It's similar with reporting bad drivers. Tax avoidance and frauds are more tolerated, even among politicians("Everyone does that / all political parties do it anyway"). There are many laws and rules which are not used in practice - the most spectacular example is the Smoleńsk plane crash in 2010 where most of the political elite, including the president, died. Also keep in mind Poles working abroad are usually the most ambitious and honest ones, because they understand Westerners appreciate that. It's refreshing being able to just focus on doing a good job, and with expensive equipment. I guess the bottom line is Poles often don't trust you, but are honest about it. This is of course largely a product of Soviet influence (technically Poland was a part of Warsaw Pact, but NOT a part of Soviet Union) and resulting material powerty. Romania, Russia are similar but even more grim. What is jaw-dropping to a Pole? "I was a construction worker in Denmark. At the end of the shift, I suggested that we store our tools indoors. - Why? We'll be working in the same place." (expecting theft) That until recent years Swedes didn't lock their homes. In a swedish fairy tale "Moonintrolls", one of characters suggest that they repair an old boat they found, so that they can use it better or give back a nice boat if the owner shows up. The idea that you might be happy about giving back an object you put your work into like that. That in other countries ministers delegate work and important decisions up to their subordinates, and that most of civil service and (local) administration stays when the ruling party changes. Polish politicians like to micromanage, and behavior like that is seen as sign of weakness. Interesting read on social trust in various countries: http://www.behaviouralinsights.co.uk/uncategorized/social-trust-is-one-of-the-most-important-measures-that-most-people-have-never-heard-of-and-its-moving/ http://www.behaviouralinsights.co.uk/uncategorized/social-tr...
- p0ints 9y ago
  I agree with most of this (I'm a Pole, currently living in Poland). I'd say that we're closer to the world norm and the Westerners are the outliers - universal wealth on an unprecedented scale has created some paradise-like conditions in those countries. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world (most of Africa, Asia, South America, Eastern Europe) people are scamming and robbing each other left and right, which creates a justified amount of mistrust. My prediction is that further automation and globalisation will be the great leveler, and in 50 years people in the West will be considerably worse off (it's already happening, hence Trump, Brexit etc.) while the rest will improve.
  - b0rsuk 9y ago
    You are probably right. We, members of the western civilization (Europe + America) increasingly live in a bubble. This is unfortunate, because Europe used to be open to the world and used to profit from that. I'm not in favor of exploitation, just pointing out there's barely any news from Africa, Asia, etc. Polish news are almost all about west and east. Barely any time is devoted to northern and southern neighbors.
- Noumenon72 9y ago
  Which rule was not used in the Smolensk crash? What would happen to you in the workplace if you behaved like a Westerner and looked for opportunities to contribute to others' priorities, praised others' work, and shared your productivity enhancers? You're totally correct that it's refreshing to just be able to focus on doing a good job. I work so much voluntary overtime just because I know that it's a rare time when you are someplace your contributions are needed and welcome. A lot of times you have a lot to offer and no organization that can get it to people who need it.
  - p0ints 9y ago
    > What would happen to you in the workplace if you behaved like a Westerner and looked for opportunities to contribute to others' priorities, praised others' work, and shared your productivity enhancers? I curently work in a large Western Europe organization (30k employees), which does a lot of its software development in Poland. I'd say the work is in many ways organized in a terrible way (courtesy of the higher-up geniuses in the HQ). My observation is that the rank-and-file employees in the Western Europe branches tend to more often eat shit and smile about it than people in Poland. That may be because I don't know them as well as my Polish collegues though.

by p0ints 9y ago

b0rsuk 9y ago

It depends what you mean. To Poles Americans look quite fake with their smiling mask, and adjectives ranking from "good" to "awesome". The world "beautiful" sticks out like a sore thumb when you read web frontend/design blogs. Words like that are reserved for truly astonishing works. There is no expectation that you feel great all the time. Ask and you usually get an honest answer(bragging on a job interview notwithstanding). It's not like I heard about India where I heard IT workers often don't ask questions or are afraid to admit they don't understand something. There is also no strong expectation to participate in polite small talk like in UK. Gosh, it's hard to say, I'll have to travel a bit to see Poland from outside. But leave your bike, or even an umbrella unattended for a few moments and it's likely to get stolen. If you drop money in a public place, it's very unlikely to be returned anywhere - it's seen as a windfall. Fenced houses and (multi-flat) blocks are getting VERY popular. In fact, people bring screens to beaches to separate themselves from each other (usually by family), sometimes even "reserving" spots on public beaches(they have no right). Some foreigners half-jokingly use the term "polish disease" to describe materialistic attitude of many Polish girls. Government clerks are famously unhelpful and make you do their job. Recruitment agencies are almost entirely focused on employer needs. Cheating in school is widespread and very rarely reported by classmates. You're seen as a snitch. It's similar with reporting bad drivers. Tax avoidance and frauds are more tolerated, even among politicians("Everyone does that / all political parties do it anyway"). There are many laws and rules which are not used in practice - the most spectacular example is the Smoleńsk plane crash in 2010 where most of the political elite, including the president, died. Also keep in mind Poles working abroad are usually the most ambitious and honest ones, because they understand Westerners appreciate that. It's refreshing being able to just focus on doing a good job, and with expensive equipment. I guess the bottom line is Poles often don't trust you, but are honest about it. This is of course largely a product of Soviet influence (technically Poland was a part of Warsaw Pact, but NOT a part of Soviet Union) and resulting material powerty. Romania, Russia are similar but even more grim. What is jaw-dropping to a Pole? "I was a construction worker in Denmark. At the end of the shift, I suggested that we store our tools indoors. - Why? We'll be working in the same place." (expecting theft) That until recent years Swedes didn't lock their homes. In a swedish fairy tale "Moonintrolls", one of characters suggest that they repair an old boat they found, so that they can use it better or give back a nice boat if the owner shows up. The idea that you might be happy about giving back an object you put your work into like that. That in other countries ministers delegate work and important decisions up to their subordinates, and that most of civil service and (local) administration stays when the ruling party changes. Polish politicians like to micromanage, and behavior like that is seen as sign of weakness. Interesting read on social trust in various countries: http://www.behaviouralinsights.co.uk/uncategorized/social-trust-is-one-of-the-most-important-measures-that-most-people-have-never-heard-of-and-its-moving/ http://www.behaviouralinsights.co.uk/uncategorized/social-tr...

p0ints 9y ago
I agree with most of this (I'm a Pole, currently living in Poland). I'd say that we're closer to the world norm and the Westerners are the outliers - universal wealth on an unprecedented scale has created some paradise-like conditions in those countries. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world (most of Africa, Asia, South America, Eastern Europe) people are scamming and robbing each other left and right, which creates a justified amount of mistrust. My prediction is that further automation and globalisation will be the great leveler, and in 50 years people in the West will be considerably worse off (it's already happening, hence Trump, Brexit etc.) while the rest will improve.
- b0rsuk 9y ago
  You are probably right. We, members of the western civilization (Europe + America) increasingly live in a bubble. This is unfortunate, because Europe used to be open to the world and used to profit from that. I'm not in favor of exploitation, just pointing out there's barely any news from Africa, Asia, etc. Polish news are almost all about west and east. Barely any time is devoted to northern and southern neighbors.
Noumenon72 9y ago
Which rule was not used in the Smolensk crash? What would happen to you in the workplace if you behaved like a Westerner and looked for opportunities to contribute to others' priorities, praised others' work, and shared your productivity enhancers? You're totally correct that it's refreshing to just be able to focus on doing a good job. I work so much voluntary overtime just because I know that it's a rare time when you are someplace your contributions are needed and welcome. A lot of times you have a lot to offer and no organization that can get it to people who need it.
- p0ints 9y ago
  > What would happen to you in the workplace if you behaved like a Westerner and looked for opportunities to contribute to others' priorities, praised others' work, and shared your productivity enhancers? I curently work in a large Western Europe organization (30k employees), which does a lot of its software development in Poland. I'd say the work is in many ways organized in a terrible way (courtesy of the higher-up geniuses in the HQ). My observation is that the rank-and-file employees in the Western Europe branches tend to more often eat shit and smile about it than people in Poland. That may be because I don't know them as well as my Polish collegues though.