7 ms·

That is is what drives me away from novel input methods and over-configured setups in general. On one hand it feels silly, but it feels a lot worse to be bewild

That is is what drives me away from novel input methods and over-configured setups in general. On one hand it feels silly, but it feels a lot worse to be bewildered by a default setup.

StavrosK 9y ago
Who is bewildered by a default setup, though? I think this is a ridiculously implausible straw man.
- dvddgld 9y ago
  I used a vim config that was intuitive to me and that I loved before I used much of default vim and that's exactly how I felt... so...
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    Huh, that's completely opposite to my experience. Sure, I miss some niceties, but I can't say that I am anywhere close to baffled or confused by a default setup.
    - dvddgld 9y ago
      Your experience is unsurprising. It depends on how much time you spend in a default configuration and how disparate your config is to that default. I have no qualms using default vim despite it not being my standard method of work, but I still hate the feeling of any case where some muscle memory sequence does not result in what I expect. Ideally I don't want to have to think about anything outside of the problem at hand at all, and this is exactly the kind of thing that breaks immersion. Because of this, among other reasons, I like small configs, standard input methods, programs with sane defaults and having a simple dotfiles repo. On this note I can't wait til the next best set of standard input/output comes along, like AR screen so we can move around freely and naturally while working... that's the dream
- userbinator 9y ago
  Ask any long-time DVORAK user and they'll tell you how hard it is when faced with a standard QWERTY.
  - dvddgld 9y ago
    Perfect example, exactly why I don't use dvorak despite hearing its praises constantly. We live in a qwerty world.
    - u801e 9y ago
      Fortunately, no one will ever say that's why I don't use emacs despite hearing its praises constantly. We live in a vim world (or vice versa). :)
    - Symbiote 9y ago
      I use Dvorak, and it's only once a month or so that I type more then two words on a Qwerty keyboard. If I'm helping a colleague, I expect them to type, otherwise they probably won't remember anyway. Otherwise, all I'm likely to type is a couple of letters to search for a name on the video conferencing system or a YouTube video on a friend's computer.
      - dvddgld 9y ago
        Can I ask how long did it take you to be touch typing on dvorak and how would you describe the benefits? I like the idea of 'better' input methods including key layout but in reality I've found it simpler to stick to the defaults of the world. I'd be interested to hear your experiences
        Symbiote 9y ago
        I learnt during the summer after the first year of university, when I was working on a small summer project at the university. It can't have been more than two months, probably more like one. I didn't touchtype Qwerty, although I could type fairly fast while looking at the keyboard. I made the "tent" showing the keyboard layout, as described at [1]. It's simply more comfortable to use Dvorak. The clearest way I have to show that is by tapping fingers on the table: it's much easier to go small-to-large than large-to-small. On Dvorak, that means typing digraphs like sn, st, sh, nt, nh, th is optimized (Qwerty equivalent: ;l ;k ;j lk lj kj — what a waste of easy-to-type combinations!). The reverse combinations are rarer in English: ht, hn, hs, tn, ts, ns. All the rare letters are on the bottom row, so the most awkward movement — bottom row then top row — is minimized. Added to that, hand alternation is much better, which is also more comfortable. Taking my first sentence, "after" and "was" are all on one hand, and trigrams like "ear" (learnt), "rst" (first), "ect" (project) are common, yet ugly to type on Qwerty. If you can touchtype Qwerty, type this to simulate typing the first two sentences: G pdaolk hfoglu kjd ;fmmdo aykdo kjd ygo;k tdao sy flg.do;gktw ,jdl G ,a; ,sovglu sl a ;mapp ;fmmdo roscdik ak kjd flg.do;gkte Gk ialqk ja.d nddl msod kjal k,s mslkj;w rosnanpt msod pgvd slde To remain closer to the defaults of the world, I've never bothered with Colemak or similar. I can add Dvorak to any computer I use, which I will occasionally do if someone asks me to use their computer to take minutes in a meeting or similar. [1] http://www.dvzine.org/zine/20-21.html http://www.dvzine.org/zine/20-21.html

That is is what drives me away from novel input methods and over-configured setups in general. On one hand it feels silly, but it feels a lot worse to be bewildered by a default setup.

StavrosK 9y ago

Who is bewildered by a default setup, though? I think this is a ridiculously implausible straw man.

dvddgld 9y ago
I used a vim config that was intuitive to me and that I loved before I used much of default vim and that's exactly how I felt... so...
- StavrosK 9y ago
  Huh, that's completely opposite to my experience. Sure, I miss some niceties, but I can't say that I am anywhere close to baffled or confused by a default setup.
  - dvddgld 9y ago
    Your experience is unsurprising. It depends on how much time you spend in a default configuration and how disparate your config is to that default. I have no qualms using default vim despite it not being my standard method of work, but I still hate the feeling of any case where some muscle memory sequence does not result in what I expect. Ideally I don't want to have to think about anything outside of the problem at hand at all, and this is exactly the kind of thing that breaks immersion. Because of this, among other reasons, I like small configs, standard input methods, programs with sane defaults and having a simple dotfiles repo. On this note I can't wait til the next best set of standard input/output comes along, like AR screen so we can move around freely and naturally while working... that's the dream
userbinator 9y ago
Ask any long-time DVORAK user and they'll tell you how hard it is when faced with a standard QWERTY.
- dvddgld 9y ago
  Perfect example, exactly why I don't use dvorak despite hearing its praises constantly. We live in a qwerty world.
  - u801e 9y ago
    Fortunately, no one will ever say that's why I don't use emacs despite hearing its praises constantly. We live in a vim world (or vice versa). :)
  - Symbiote 9y ago
    I use Dvorak, and it's only once a month or so that I type more then two words on a Qwerty keyboard. If I'm helping a colleague, I expect them to type, otherwise they probably won't remember anyway. Otherwise, all I'm likely to type is a couple of letters to search for a name on the video conferencing system or a YouTube video on a friend's computer.
    - dvddgld 9y ago
      Can I ask how long did it take you to be touch typing on dvorak and how would you describe the benefits? I like the idea of 'better' input methods including key layout but in reality I've found it simpler to stick to the defaults of the world. I'd be interested to hear your experiences
      - Symbiote 9y ago
        I learnt during the summer after the first year of university, when I was working on a small summer project at the university. It can't have been more than two months, probably more like one. I didn't touchtype Qwerty, although I could type fairly fast while looking at the keyboard. I made the "tent" showing the keyboard layout, as described at [1]. It's simply more comfortable to use Dvorak. The clearest way I have to show that is by tapping fingers on the table: it's much easier to go small-to-large than large-to-small. On Dvorak, that means typing digraphs like sn, st, sh, nt, nh, th is optimized (Qwerty equivalent: ;l ;k ;j lk lj kj — what a waste of easy-to-type combinations!). The reverse combinations are rarer in English: ht, hn, hs, tn, ts, ns. All the rare letters are on the bottom row, so the most awkward movement — bottom row then top row — is minimized. Added to that, hand alternation is much better, which is also more comfortable. Taking my first sentence, "after" and "was" are all on one hand, and trigrams like "ear" (learnt), "rst" (first), "ect" (project) are common, yet ugly to type on Qwerty. If you can touchtype Qwerty, type this to simulate typing the first two sentences: G pdaolk hfoglu kjd ;fmmdo aykdo kjd ygo;k tdao sy flg.do;gktw ,jdl G ,a; ,sovglu sl a ;mapp ;fmmdo roscdik ak kjd flg.do;gkte Gk ialqk ja.d nddl msod kjal k,s mslkj;w rosnanpt msod pgvd slde To remain closer to the defaults of the world, I've never bothered with Colemak or similar. I can add Dvorak to any computer I use, which I will occasionally do if someone asks me to use their computer to take minutes in a meeting or similar. [1] http://www.dvzine.org/zine/20-21.html http://www.dvzine.org/zine/20-21.html