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Even with this revision the hourly wage is well below the $15.00 minimum wage here in Seattle. I wonder if after expenses Instacart and Amazon delivery drivers

Even with this revision the hourly wage is well below the $15.00 minimum wage here in Seattle. I wonder if after expenses Instacart and Amazon delivery drivers make any more than the typical Uber driver? I think contractors across all income levels need better protections. Laws should be enacted to guarantee after vehicle expenses that if one drives an Uber for an hour one makes at least a minimum wage.

Consultant32452 9y ago
If there are $15/hr jobs, why do you believe so many people are willing to accept half that to drive for Uber? I wonder what their total pay is after tips.
- jakob223 9y ago
  Since nobody seems to have any idea how much these things actually pay after costs (see: this correction and the original study), it's plausible that people would expect this to pay more than it does.
  - usrusr 9y ago
    Also, it's really difficult to define the one, right way of correcting for vehicle expenses. Some people would even work for free if it just gave them access to a high status car (live off savings while pretending to have "made it", as proven by the car). Others would be fine with any old beater, or a bike.
  - xapata 9y ago
    I think word would get around after a while.
    - sp332 9y ago
      I think it just did.
      - xapata 9y ago
        I wonder how much reach that study has among Uber drivers and potential Uber drivers.
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        The study might matter to us and regulators, but the thing that matters to drivers is how much they as an individual make. They had that information already, and knowing the average income doesn't help them figure out how much money they're making.
        xapata 9y ago
        That can be confusing for drivers for some months as they may not realize the increased maintenance cost for a little while. But eventually they'll figure it out. The evidence I can observe is consistent with the hypothesis that Uber and Lyft are paying sufficiently to motivate drivers.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    I would like to think that while it might be difficult to calculate my exact hourly income, I could tell the difference between $8/hr and $15/hr.
  - acchow 9y ago
    You think these people making $15/hr don't watch their actual take-home after expenses carefully?
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      The difficult thing to calculate in the short term is wear and tear on the vehicle. Average Joe is potentially only counting fuel and not total costs per mile.
      - acchow 9y ago
        Do you talk to Uber drivers?
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        No, but I worked at a pizza place for several years. Everyone was vaguely aware of the fact that they were using up car value delivering pizzas, but only a couple of older full time "career" drivers seemed to actually calculate it out so they knew what they were getting.
- scott00 9y ago
  Greater flexibility in hours and reduced scrutiny of immigration status are two reasons I can think of someone may knowingly prefer a lower than minimum wage job driving for Uber than making minimum wage at, say, a fast food restaurant.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    This is one I hadn't considered being such a big deal. Some people/cultures have a hard time coping with strict start and stop times of traditional jobs. You can literally work any random time as an Uber driver.
- megy 9y ago
  What are you even questioning? Do you think everyone knows how little it pays BEFORE the report came out?
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    Maybe you didn't know how much the average Uber driver makes, but any individual Uber driver would know about how much they themselves are making.
- zaarn 9y ago
  Uber doesn't tell you "you'll make 15$/h". They tell you "this drive will make you / made you 27.98$" It makes it a lot harder or less likely for the users to compare to an actual wage, especially since the uber jobs are basically provided on a as-needed basis.
thealfreds 9y ago
I wonder if the hourly would increase for larger cities because of more individuals hailing. Though certainly increased expense from fixing the car because of city driving. I wish Uber would release the numbers for review but that won't happen.
allthenews 9y ago
Do you believe that Uber and Lyft would exist if they had to pay what the government has determined to be an eqyivalent minimum wage? Hell, we can't even agree on how much these drivers are actually earning, according to articles like OP, why do people feel that having the government step in and set some arbitrary legal price target is superior to relying on individuals to decide for themselves whether the work is worthwhile? Do you feel that all of these drivers are unknowingly losing money and that they would be better off without the extra income that they willingly generate?
- atonse 9y ago
  It doesn't matter if they could exist. The point is that the minimum wage is there so the _employees_ can exist and make a living. If a company's business model relies on paying people shit wages, the blame lies totally on the company to fix it.
  - allthenews 9y ago
    But this is an excellent example of a case where forcing minimum wage equivalent on ride sharing would result in a net loss of jobs, is it not? Where is the money going to come from? I use ride sharing because it is cheap and convenient, but it is something I can gladly go back to living without. Meanwhile, on the "market" supply side, you have individual people rationally choosing to drive, and you are advocating to essentially take that agency away from them, by artificially setting a price floor.
    - atonse 9y ago
      But as we all have seen, the ride sharing market as it stands right now is artificial. Even though people are getting paid a pittance, the actual fares are severely subsidized by VC money, so what you're paying for isn't sustainable. The other shoe will drop soon. And drivers STILL won't get paid much. So it's not like this business model is that strong as it is.
      - allthenews 9y ago
TangoTrotFox 9y ago
Uber costs are different in different areas. I suspect the areas with higher minimum wage also tend to correlates with higher rates for Uber due to a higher median income, enabling a higher optimal price on the price:demand curve. A random website and some very nonscientific sampling (internet forum stats at their finest!) seems to provide some confirmation of this hypothesis: http://uberestimate.com/prices/Seattle/ http://uberestimate.com/prices/Seattle/ - $1.35 base, $0.24/minute, $1.35/mile, $1.95 service fee, $5.45 minimum fare http://uberestimate.com/prices/Miami/ http://uberestimate.com/prices/Miami/ - $0.95 base, $0.13/minute, $0.91/mile, $2.20 service fee, $5.50 minimum fare

Consultant32452 9y ago

If there are $15/hr jobs, why do you believe so many people are willing to accept half that to drive for Uber? I wonder what their total pay is after tips.

jakob223 9y ago
Since nobody seems to have any idea how much these things actually pay after costs (see: this correction and the original study), it's plausible that people would expect this to pay more than it does.
- usrusr 9y ago
  Also, it's really difficult to define the one, right way of correcting for vehicle expenses. Some people would even work for free if it just gave them access to a high status car (live off savings while pretending to have "made it", as proven by the car). Others would be fine with any old beater, or a bike.
- xapata 9y ago
  I think word would get around after a while.
  - sp332 9y ago
    I think it just did.
    - xapata 9y ago
      I wonder how much reach that study has among Uber drivers and potential Uber drivers.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        The study might matter to us and regulators, but the thing that matters to drivers is how much they as an individual make. They had that information already, and knowing the average income doesn't help them figure out how much money they're making.
        xapata 9y ago
        That can be confusing for drivers for some months as they may not realize the increased maintenance cost for a little while. But eventually they'll figure it out. The evidence I can observe is consistent with the hypothesis that Uber and Lyft are paying sufficiently to motivate drivers.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  I would like to think that while it might be difficult to calculate my exact hourly income, I could tell the difference between $8/hr and $15/hr.
- acchow 9y ago
  You think these people making $15/hr don't watch their actual take-home after expenses carefully?
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    The difficult thing to calculate in the short term is wear and tear on the vehicle. Average Joe is potentially only counting fuel and not total costs per mile.
    - acchow 9y ago
      Do you talk to Uber drivers?
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        No, but I worked at a pizza place for several years. Everyone was vaguely aware of the fact that they were using up car value delivering pizzas, but only a couple of older full time "career" drivers seemed to actually calculate it out so they knew what they were getting.
scott00 9y ago
Greater flexibility in hours and reduced scrutiny of immigration status are two reasons I can think of someone may knowingly prefer a lower than minimum wage job driving for Uber than making minimum wage at, say, a fast food restaurant.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  This is one I hadn't considered being such a big deal. Some people/cultures have a hard time coping with strict start and stop times of traditional jobs. You can literally work any random time as an Uber driver.
megy 9y ago
What are you even questioning? Do you think everyone knows how little it pays BEFORE the report came out?
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  Maybe you didn't know how much the average Uber driver makes, but any individual Uber driver would know about how much they themselves are making.
zaarn 9y ago
Uber doesn't tell you "you'll make 15$/h". They tell you "this drive will make you / made you 27.98$" It makes it a lot harder or less likely for the users to compare to an actual wage, especially since the uber jobs are basically provided on a as-needed basis.

thealfreds 9y ago

I wonder if the hourly would increase for larger cities because of more individuals hailing. Though certainly increased expense from fixing the car because of city driving. I wish Uber would release the numbers for review but that won't happen.

allthenews 9y ago

Do you believe that Uber and Lyft would exist if they had to pay what the government has determined to be an eqyivalent minimum wage? Hell, we can't even agree on how much these drivers are actually earning, according to articles like OP, why do people feel that having the government step in and set some arbitrary legal price target is superior to relying on individuals to decide for themselves whether the work is worthwhile? Do you feel that all of these drivers are unknowingly losing money and that they would be better off without the extra income that they willingly generate?

atonse 9y ago
It doesn't matter if they could exist. The point is that the minimum wage is there so the _employees_ can exist and make a living. If a company's business model relies on paying people shit wages, the blame lies totally on the company to fix it.
- allthenews 9y ago
  But this is an excellent example of a case where forcing minimum wage equivalent on ride sharing would result in a net loss of jobs, is it not? Where is the money going to come from? I use ride sharing because it is cheap and convenient, but it is something I can gladly go back to living without. Meanwhile, on the "market" supply side, you have individual people rationally choosing to drive, and you are advocating to essentially take that agency away from them, by artificially setting a price floor.
  - atonse 9y ago
    But as we all have seen, the ride sharing market as it stands right now is artificial. Even though people are getting paid a pittance, the actual fares are severely subsidized by VC money, so what you're paying for isn't sustainable. The other shoe will drop soon. And drivers STILL won't get paid much. So it's not like this business model is that strong as it is.
    - allthenews 9y ago

TangoTrotFox 9y ago

Uber costs are different in different areas. I suspect the areas with higher minimum wage also tend to correlates with higher rates for Uber due to a higher median income, enabling a higher optimal price on the price:demand curve. A random website and some very nonscientific sampling (internet forum stats at their finest!) seems to provide some confirmation of this hypothesis: http://uberestimate.com/prices/Seattle/ http://uberestimate.com/prices/Seattle/ - $1.35 base, $0.24/minute, $1.35/mile, $1.95 service fee, $5.45 minimum fare http://uberestimate.com/prices/Miami/ http://uberestimate.com/prices/Miami/ - $0.95 base, $0.13/minute, $0.91/mile, $2.20 service fee, $5.50 minimum fare