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So despite 7 out of 72 comments on this submission being yours, you don't even know what it's actually about. > If you were googling for it, maybe Google knows

So despite 7 out of 72 comments on this submission being yours, you don't even know what it's actually about. > If you were googling for it, maybe Google knows something interesting about you that it redirects you to nazi sites? Then, as I asked, show me site that isn't an anti-Semitic neo-Nazi blog that agrees with you that this was a "forced famine".

Fins 9y ago
Uh, the same Wiki? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9322#Origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9... Given how many other famines communists had unleashed, pretty much none of which was caused by big bad American intervention, it is still surprising that the only links you can find are from some fringe sites.
- Tech-Noir 9y ago
  > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9322 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9... Your claim that it was a "forced famine" doesn't appear anywhere on that page. On the contrary, it states: The famine's primary causes were due to severe flooding in the Volga region in 1921, as well as the exacerbation of the Russian Civil War. The only pages on the internet that concur with your belief are anti-Semitic neo-Nazi blogs. > it is still surprising that the only links you can find are from some fringe sites Then again, for the third time of asking, provide some non-"fringe" links that claim, as you do, that it was a "forced famine".
  - Fins 9y ago
    From the link above: "According to the official Bolshevik position, which is still maintained by some modern Marxists, the rich peasants (kulaks) withheld their surplus grain to preserve their lives;[2] statistics indicate that most of the grain and the other food supplies passed through the black market.[3][4][5] The Bolsheviks believed peasants were actively trying to undermine the war effort. The Black Book of Communism asserts that Lenin ordered the seizure of the food peasants had grown for their own subsistence and their seed grain in retaliation for this "sabotage", leading to widespread peasant revolts.[6] In 1920, Lenin ordered increased emphasis on food requisitioning from the peasantry." Still not seeing any fringe sources.
    - Tech-Noir 9y ago
      And I'm still not seeing any claim of "forced famine". Did you forget to edit the page before copying it? All your quote says is that some people claim one side was to blame and some people claim another side was to blame. More interesting is that you don't consider to be a "fringe source" the far-right bible The Black Book of Communism - a publication discredited and disowned even by its main authors - which in order to fabricate a high enough death count to paint the Nazis as not so bad after all and the Holocaust as nothing special, classifies as victims the likes of Nazi/SS military personnel and anti-Semitic Ukrainian nationalist militias who murdered thousands of Jews in countless pogroms.
      - Fins 9y ago
        Oh, I am sorry. I did not realize that you are defending communists. I guess killing more people than Nazis is OK, as long as they were the wrong kind of people... And seriously, if the best criticism of The Black Book is that it compares Nazis and communists, I do not see what the problem is... other than that communists are quite a bit worse. Criticism of "Death camps did not exist in the Soviet Union" is laughable on its face.
        Tech-Noir 9y ago
        > I guess killing more people than Nazis is OK, as long as they were the wrong kind of people... Good luck finding sympathy, outside neo-Nazi circles, for actual Nazis and Ukrainian militias who mass murdered Jews. > if the best criticism of The Black Book is The best criticism is that it was discredited and disowned even by its own authors.
        Fins 9y ago
        So I guess neither Russians, nor Ukrainians, nor Kazakhs, who probably have not even heard about Jews' existence, nor other millions of people slaughtered by communists count. Only Jews? That's not much different from making excuses for Nazis. Except, of course, that they had killed far fewer people. Exact numbers in the Black Book might be inaccurate -- unlike Germans, Soviets did not keep precise accouinting, but even the alleged discrediting by its authors boils down to quibbling over whether it was the exact 100 million (a suspicious number indeed), or 93 million, or maybe only 67 million. Other criticism is just pathetic bleatinbgs from fellow travellers who have as much credibility on crimes of communists as David Irving has on the Holocaust. As a little amusing fact, Roland Freisler was one of those people taking last grain away from Russian peasants. But then the revolving door betweem commies and nazis was wide open back then https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%91%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0#%D0%98%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D1%8B https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%80...

Fins 9y ago

Uh, the same Wiki? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9322#Origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9... Given how many other famines communists had unleashed, pretty much none of which was caused by big bad American intervention, it is still surprising that the only links you can find are from some fringe sites.

Tech-Noir 9y ago
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9322 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%9... Your claim that it was a "forced famine" doesn't appear anywhere on that page. On the contrary, it states: The famine's primary causes were due to severe flooding in the Volga region in 1921, as well as the exacerbation of the Russian Civil War. The only pages on the internet that concur with your belief are anti-Semitic neo-Nazi blogs. > it is still surprising that the only links you can find are from some fringe sites Then again, for the third time of asking, provide some non-"fringe" links that claim, as you do, that it was a "forced famine".
- Fins 9y ago
  From the link above: "According to the official Bolshevik position, which is still maintained by some modern Marxists, the rich peasants (kulaks) withheld their surplus grain to preserve their lives;[2] statistics indicate that most of the grain and the other food supplies passed through the black market.[3][4][5] The Bolsheviks believed peasants were actively trying to undermine the war effort. The Black Book of Communism asserts that Lenin ordered the seizure of the food peasants had grown for their own subsistence and their seed grain in retaliation for this "sabotage", leading to widespread peasant revolts.[6] In 1920, Lenin ordered increased emphasis on food requisitioning from the peasantry." Still not seeing any fringe sources.
  - Tech-Noir 9y ago
    And I'm still not seeing any claim of "forced famine". Did you forget to edit the page before copying it? All your quote says is that some people claim one side was to blame and some people claim another side was to blame. More interesting is that you don't consider to be a "fringe source" the far-right bible The Black Book of Communism - a publication discredited and disowned even by its main authors - which in order to fabricate a high enough death count to paint the Nazis as not so bad after all and the Holocaust as nothing special, classifies as victims the likes of Nazi/SS military personnel and anti-Semitic Ukrainian nationalist militias who murdered thousands of Jews in countless pogroms.
    - Fins 9y ago
      Oh, I am sorry. I did not realize that you are defending communists. I guess killing more people than Nazis is OK, as long as they were the wrong kind of people... And seriously, if the best criticism of The Black Book is that it compares Nazis and communists, I do not see what the problem is... other than that communists are quite a bit worse. Criticism of "Death camps did not exist in the Soviet Union" is laughable on its face.
      - Tech-Noir 9y ago
        > I guess killing more people than Nazis is OK, as long as they were the wrong kind of people... Good luck finding sympathy, outside neo-Nazi circles, for actual Nazis and Ukrainian militias who mass murdered Jews. > if the best criticism of The Black Book is The best criticism is that it was discredited and disowned even by its own authors.
        Fins 9y ago
        So I guess neither Russians, nor Ukrainians, nor Kazakhs, who probably have not even heard about Jews' existence, nor other millions of people slaughtered by communists count. Only Jews? That's not much different from making excuses for Nazis. Except, of course, that they had killed far fewer people. Exact numbers in the Black Book might be inaccurate -- unlike Germans, Soviets did not keep precise accouinting, but even the alleged discrediting by its authors boils down to quibbling over whether it was the exact 100 million (a suspicious number indeed), or 93 million, or maybe only 67 million. Other criticism is just pathetic bleatinbgs from fellow travellers who have as much credibility on crimes of communists as David Irving has on the Holocaust. As a little amusing fact, Roland Freisler was one of those people taking last grain away from Russian peasants. But then the revolving door betweem commies and nazis was wide open back then https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%91%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0#%D0%98%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%82%D1%8B https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%80...