6 ms·

I don't understand infatuation with NYC subway. Moscow subway, while being very old, very deep and in supposed third world country had count down clocks for 25

I don't understand infatuation with NYC subway. Moscow subway, while being very old, very deep and in supposed third world country had count down clocks for 25 years, all major carriers LTE for years, very fast wifi on stations and in tunnels for forever, doesn't even require stupid login, just connects, imagine that. The only feeling I have for NYC subway is shame. That pride that some people have is apparently because they never visit anywhere. Oh, and trains are very fast, and come every 3 minutes

WaxProlix 9y ago
I lived in Moscow for a while as a kid and the Metro system was such a joy in retrospect that it's really soured me on some other cities' transit systems. Living in Seattle right now while we struggle to achieve a single-route light rail system is especially saddening. Crazy that Moscow's system is almost 100 years old, dating from 1935. (I just checked and London's Underground has it beat by a margin though - 1863)
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Depending on how you count it, nyc metro started in 1863 also (as an above road rail).
usaphp 9y ago
And it’s much cleaner
DoreenMichele 9y ago
HN is a US-cetric forum. Americans are bad about being oblivious to the existence of anything outside the US. New York is, by far, the largest US city and one of the oldest. It is hugely influential here and has essentially legendary status in the minds of many Americans. To most Americans, New York is kind of The big city and symbolizes anything and everything urban. I am not sure if we even have subways elsewhere (which just may be my own ignorance showing). If we do, they wouldn't be as extensive.
- totalZero 9y ago
  > Americans are bad about being oblivious to the existence of anything outside the US. That seems like a pretty hefty generalization. > I am not sure if we even have subways elsewhere (which just may be my own ignorance showing). Maybe you should visit nearby Boston, DC, or Philadelphia.
  - crazygringo 9y ago
    The NYC subway is seen in TV shows, movies, it's part of the national consciousness. Have you ever seen a movie or TV show which depicted the Boston, DC or Philly metros? Most New Yorkers you know will not have cars. Most people you know in Boston, DC or Philly will.
    - philliphaydon 9y ago
      When ever I hear about NYC subway i instantly picture the photos on imgur.
    - pmalynin 9y ago
      Actually yea, I saw a Netflix show that had a scene in the subway in LA. The show was about Hollywood writers or something, can't recall the name.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - derivagral 9y ago
      The people I know in Boston/Somerville/Cambridge avoid having a car due to how irritating it is. I had one while living in the city (family reasons), but if I had the option I would've happily ditched it.
      - chimeracoder 9y ago
        > The people I know in Boston/Somerville/Cambridge avoid having a car due to how irritating it is. Anecdotal stories notwithstanding, New York is the only city in the country in which the outright majority of people don't own cars. (D.C. is a very distant second).
tty7 9y ago
Its not 24/7 (closes 1am every night) Nyc subway is unbeatable in that regard. And I prefer 24/7 service than being able to use the wifi to book an uber ;)
- razorunreal 9y ago
  24/7 "service". Sometimes I feel like I'm stuck in the middle of a tunnel just so some middle manager can claim that the line is still running. I would prefer they closed the thing at night and put some serious effort into improvements.
L_Rahman 9y ago
I promise you that most New Yorkers are deeply unhappy with the subway. The pride that we feel in the MTA is in carving out a non-automobile based way of life in a country where the ability to drive and own a a car is synonymous with independence and coming of age. We're also a little proud of the fact that it never stops running even if the trains are only running every twenty minutes. I can not describe how freeing it is to not feel bound by a metro closing time (as I so often do when I visit London or Seoul or Hong Kong).
- yakovsi 9y ago
  The fact that Moscow's subway outperforms NYC in every metric despite rampant corruption and embezzlement (buddy of mine used to be an engineer there) means one thing: MTA is inept beyond any measure and any repair. Some changes are in order to unshackle NYC Subway, so we all can be proud of it
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > The fact that Moscow's subway outperforms NYC in every metric despite rampant corruption and embezzlement (buddy of mine used to be an engineer there) Wait, are you talking about Moscow? Because the MTA/TWU in New York is rife with corruption and embezzlement. That's the whole problem. I agree, though, with the ultimate point: the MTA is utterly inept (or more accurately: utterly corrupt) and needs massive reform. https://nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html?referer= https://nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-cons...
    - lobster_johnson 9y ago
      I think he meant that Moscow is also extremely corrupt, yet outperforms NYC (despite comparative levels of corruption).
chimeracoder 9y ago
> Moscow subway, while being very old, very deep and in supposed third world country Moscow is not in a third-world country, in either sense of the word. It's not in a developing nation (colloquial contemporary use of the word), and it's not in a country that remained unallied with the US and Russia during the Cold War, which is the original meaning of the word.
- yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
  I was going to mention this, too: Russia is definitively a second world country:)
toomanybeersies 9y ago
Without trying to stir up a debate about the merits of various political systems, could this be due to the strong state control in the Soviet era? I'd imagine it would be a lot easier in Soviet Russia to just say "we're upgrading this, the line will be down for a week, deal with it". It was an authoritarian state, you're not running for reelection, it didn't matter if people got a bit miffed at delays due to an upgrade.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  Decades ago, perhaps. LTE is not decades old...
  - Retric 9y ago
    Russia is not exactly a bastion of democracy today.
    - Piskvorrr 9y ago
      Indeed not, but that doesn't quite mean the scenario outlined above - the current government tries to keep up a facade of a democratic state.
- cylinder 9y ago
  uh, the MTA doesn't put things like "install countdown timer signage" up for democratic referendum.
  - thescriptkiddie 9y ago
    But the democratically elected state senators do routinely cut the MTA's funding so that they can give their overrepresented rural constituents a tax cut.
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      > But the democratically elected state senators do routinely cut the MTA's funding so that they can give their overrepresented rural constituents a tax cut. 1. New York is not a democracy in anything but name. Voters have basically no control over the state government; the party establishment has fully captured that role. 2. The MTA doesn't have a funding problem. It has a spending problem - it literally pays people six-figure salaries to do absolutely nothing: https://nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html?referer= https://nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-cons...
oldcynic 9y ago
The Moscow subway is astonishing for the architecture. Some stations look more like the interior of the Hermitage than a subway. Marble, art, chandeliers! In that respect I think it's truly unique. If you don't know of this try an image search for moscow subway
ucaetano 9y ago
> I don't understand infatuation with NYC subway Despite how bad it is, the NYC subway is still the best public transit system in the US, so Americans are infatuated with it, especially those who never user other subway systems. So New Yorkers are like "BART sucks, my subway is way better, itś amazing", while the rest of the world is like "oh, you have shitty dirty metal boxes that break down all the time and you call it public transit, how cute..."
- cylinder 9y ago
  And just shows the provincialism in a supposed "world capital" that is NYC. New York shouldn't be compared to San Francisco, it should be compared to London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. NYC subway is complete trash, it's one of the most depressing aspects of living in New York. Any impressiveness that comes from it is not from the system itself but rather the density of the surface above it. You feel like you just got from one side of the city to another quickly, but that was in spite of the crappy subway system; it was because so much is crammed within 2 miles above you!
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > And just shows the provincialism in a supposed "world capital" that is NYC. New York shouldn't be compared to San Francisco, it should be compared to London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. New York is compared to London and Hong Kong. That's why they're called the Big Three. I'll be the first one to talk at length about the many problems of the MTA and the effects on New York public transit, but to be honest, it still comes out ahead of London. It's absurdly expensive due to corruption, and there's no excuse for amount of money the MTA spends for the outcomes it delivers on, but the picture you're painting isn't accurate either.
  - devb 9y ago
    Should a person not be impressed by being able to travel through two miles of incredible urban density in just a few minutes? I think vehicular traffic is far and away the most depressing aspect of NYC. All of the noise, pollution, bad attitudes, and danger to pedestrians and cyclists and it's not even close to being a timely and efficient way to get around. The subway is a damn miracle compared to any other current form of surface transportation.
gaadd33 9y ago
The stations in Moscow seem amazing, but they have half as many as in NYC. Plus I don't believe they run 24/7 do they? I believe Moscow has traditionally had way more support from the overall country as opposed to just being funded from Moscow proper. Has there ever been something similar as "Ford to City: Drop Dead" with Moscow/the metro system?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

WaxProlix 9y ago

I lived in Moscow for a while as a kid and the Metro system was such a joy in retrospect that it's really soured me on some other cities' transit systems. Living in Seattle right now while we struggle to achieve a single-route light rail system is especially saddening. Crazy that Moscow's system is almost 100 years old, dating from 1935. (I just checked and London's Underground has it beat by a margin though - 1863)

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Depending on how you count it, nyc metro started in 1863 also (as an above road rail).

usaphp 9y ago

And it’s much cleaner

DoreenMichele 9y ago

HN is a US-cetric forum. Americans are bad about being oblivious to the existence of anything outside the US. New York is, by far, the largest US city and one of the oldest. It is hugely influential here and has essentially legendary status in the minds of many Americans. To most Americans, New York is kind of The big city and symbolizes anything and everything urban. I am not sure if we even have subways elsewhere (which just may be my own ignorance showing). If we do, they wouldn't be as extensive.

totalZero 9y ago
> Americans are bad about being oblivious to the existence of anything outside the US. That seems like a pretty hefty generalization. > I am not sure if we even have subways elsewhere (which just may be my own ignorance showing). Maybe you should visit nearby Boston, DC, or Philadelphia.
- crazygringo 9y ago
  The NYC subway is seen in TV shows, movies, it's part of the national consciousness. Have you ever seen a movie or TV show which depicted the Boston, DC or Philly metros? Most New Yorkers you know will not have cars. Most people you know in Boston, DC or Philly will.
  - philliphaydon 9y ago
    When ever I hear about NYC subway i instantly picture the photos on imgur.
  - pmalynin 9y ago
    Actually yea, I saw a Netflix show that had a scene in the subway in LA. The show was about Hollywood writers or something, can't recall the name.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - derivagral 9y ago
    The people I know in Boston/Somerville/Cambridge avoid having a car due to how irritating it is. I had one while living in the city (family reasons), but if I had the option I would've happily ditched it.
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      > The people I know in Boston/Somerville/Cambridge avoid having a car due to how irritating it is. Anecdotal stories notwithstanding, New York is the only city in the country in which the outright majority of people don't own cars. (D.C. is a very distant second).

tty7 9y ago

Its not 24/7 (closes 1am every night) Nyc subway is unbeatable in that regard. And I prefer 24/7 service than being able to use the wifi to book an uber ;)

razorunreal 9y ago
24/7 "service". Sometimes I feel like I'm stuck in the middle of a tunnel just so some middle manager can claim that the line is still running. I would prefer they closed the thing at night and put some serious effort into improvements.

L_Rahman 9y ago

I promise you that most New Yorkers are deeply unhappy with the subway. The pride that we feel in the MTA is in carving out a non-automobile based way of life in a country where the ability to drive and own a a car is synonymous with independence and coming of age. We're also a little proud of the fact that it never stops running even if the trains are only running every twenty minutes. I can not describe how freeing it is to not feel bound by a metro closing time (as I so often do when I visit London or Seoul or Hong Kong).

yakovsi 9y ago
The fact that Moscow's subway outperforms NYC in every metric despite rampant corruption and embezzlement (buddy of mine used to be an engineer there) means one thing: MTA is inept beyond any measure and any repair. Some changes are in order to unshackle NYC Subway, so we all can be proud of it
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > The fact that Moscow's subway outperforms NYC in every metric despite rampant corruption and embezzlement (buddy of mine used to be an engineer there) Wait, are you talking about Moscow? Because the MTA/TWU in New York is rife with corruption and embezzlement. That's the whole problem. I agree, though, with the ultimate point: the MTA is utterly inept (or more accurately: utterly corrupt) and needs massive reform. https://nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html?referer= https://nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-cons...
  - lobster_johnson 9y ago
    I think he meant that Moscow is also extremely corrupt, yet outperforms NYC (despite comparative levels of corruption).

chimeracoder 9y ago

> Moscow subway, while being very old, very deep and in supposed third world country Moscow is not in a third-world country, in either sense of the word. It's not in a developing nation (colloquial contemporary use of the word), and it's not in a country that remained unallied with the US and Russia during the Cold War, which is the original meaning of the word.

yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
I was going to mention this, too: Russia is definitively a second world country:)

toomanybeersies 9y ago

Without trying to stir up a debate about the merits of various political systems, could this be due to the strong state control in the Soviet era? I'd imagine it would be a lot easier in Soviet Russia to just say "we're upgrading this, the line will be down for a week, deal with it". It was an authoritarian state, you're not running for reelection, it didn't matter if people got a bit miffed at delays due to an upgrade.

Piskvorrr 9y ago
Decades ago, perhaps. LTE is not decades old...
- Retric 9y ago
  Russia is not exactly a bastion of democracy today.
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    Indeed not, but that doesn't quite mean the scenario outlined above - the current government tries to keep up a facade of a democratic state.
cylinder 9y ago
uh, the MTA doesn't put things like "install countdown timer signage" up for democratic referendum.
- thescriptkiddie 9y ago
  But the democratically elected state senators do routinely cut the MTA's funding so that they can give their overrepresented rural constituents a tax cut.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > But the democratically elected state senators do routinely cut the MTA's funding so that they can give their overrepresented rural constituents a tax cut. 1. New York is not a democracy in anything but name. Voters have basically no control over the state government; the party establishment has fully captured that role. 2. The MTA doesn't have a funding problem. It has a spending problem - it literally pays people six-figure salaries to do absolutely nothing: https://nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html?referer= https://nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-cons...

oldcynic 9y ago

The Moscow subway is astonishing for the architecture. Some stations look more like the interior of the Hermitage than a subway. Marble, art, chandeliers! In that respect I think it's truly unique. If you don't know of this try an image search for moscow subway

ucaetano 9y ago

> I don't understand infatuation with NYC subway Despite how bad it is, the NYC subway is still the best public transit system in the US, so Americans are infatuated with it, especially those who never user other subway systems. So New Yorkers are like "BART sucks, my subway is way better, itś amazing", while the rest of the world is like "oh, you have shitty dirty metal boxes that break down all the time and you call it public transit, how cute..."

cylinder 9y ago
And just shows the provincialism in a supposed "world capital" that is NYC. New York shouldn't be compared to San Francisco, it should be compared to London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. NYC subway is complete trash, it's one of the most depressing aspects of living in New York. Any impressiveness that comes from it is not from the system itself but rather the density of the surface above it. You feel like you just got from one side of the city to another quickly, but that was in spite of the crappy subway system; it was because so much is crammed within 2 miles above you!
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > And just shows the provincialism in a supposed "world capital" that is NYC. New York shouldn't be compared to San Francisco, it should be compared to London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. New York is compared to London and Hong Kong. That's why they're called the Big Three. I'll be the first one to talk at length about the many problems of the MTA and the effects on New York public transit, but to be honest, it still comes out ahead of London. It's absurdly expensive due to corruption, and there's no excuse for amount of money the MTA spends for the outcomes it delivers on, but the picture you're painting isn't accurate either.
- devb 9y ago
  Should a person not be impressed by being able to travel through two miles of incredible urban density in just a few minutes? I think vehicular traffic is far and away the most depressing aspect of NYC. All of the noise, pollution, bad attitudes, and danger to pedestrians and cyclists and it's not even close to being a timely and efficient way to get around. The subway is a damn miracle compared to any other current form of surface transportation.

gaadd33 9y ago

The stations in Moscow seem amazing, but they have half as many as in NYC. Plus I don't believe they run 24/7 do they? I believe Moscow has traditionally had way more support from the overall country as opposed to just being funded from Moscow proper. Has there ever been something similar as "Ford to City: Drop Dead" with Moscow/the metro system?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]