5 ms·

How is it expensive to solve the bullpen issue? Tell people to STFU or build a wall in the office, or at least put up some dividers. It’s not rocket science. M

How is it expensive to solve the bullpen issue? Tell people to STFU or build a wall in the office, or at least put up some dividers. It’s not rocket science. Most CEOs and VPs are idiots, handing money around to each other in a circle jerk of old white guys club, backslapping each other for hiring each other and keeping the hegemony going. These idiots do not know what they are doing, they have just been conditioned to ooze confidence and ignore critics.

loup-vaillant 9y ago
I tried, and nearly got fired for this. Well, not fired, but I'm currently a contractor, and was told because of this that I may not become an actual hire. (This has since settled down, but I'm still not hired because of unrelated issues —they're still waiting for a government grant.) The story is simple: we have a prefab building with 3 stories, a beautiful interior, 52 desks on each floor. All open, but for 2 closed meeting rooms per floor. And the toilet. The desks are arranged close to the window. The centre of the floor holds a couple meeting spaces, and the coffee machine. It was, unsurprisingly, very noisy. I talked about the issue during a sprint's retrospective, and was told to lay out my proposals to HR. I had plenty, most of which didn't involve actually chopping up the "lovely" open space into actual desks. It was mostly about putting dividing half walls and generally muffling the whole thing, while mostly preserving that "open" look that is so dear to whoever doesn't actually work there (funny how most people who condoned the open plan end up spending most of their time in meetings). I had indirect feedback later (through my team's product owner). Turned out the head HR was surprised to see me raise the subject—I was the first to do so. So she asked around. The feedback she got was mostly "well, yeah, it's an open plan, but it's okay", which she translated by "there is no problem, it's just a single contractor being difficult". I guess she was oblivious to the biases introduced by her being in a position of power. That nobody will say to her face that the noise is not okay, lest she thinks they can't fit in. (I no longer have that fear, for better or worse.) I have later learned that a "Life in the Open Plan" group formed because of the noise issue.
- loorinm 9y ago
  I honestly don’t know why so many companies are clinging to open offices with a death grip. Who does this benefit???
  - loup-vaillant 9y ago
    Accounting. Open offices take less space, which is cheaper. The real costs are hidden, so they tend to be ignored. It also looks good from the outside.
    - Declanomous 9y ago
      Yeah, the funny thing is that the accountants and HR all had private offices with doors that locked because they dealt with confidential matters.
      - loup-vaillant 9y ago
        In our case, even the higher ups have their desk in the open plan. Closer to the corners of course, but still. And I think this actually contributes to the delusion of harmlessness of this environment. Having their desk in the open plan, they're more be inclined to think they are as affected as everyone else. Except they're not, because they spend way more time in meetings, and live on the manager's schedule. As far as I can tell, the higher ups actually do mean well. I'm not sure what drew them to the open plan, but I think cold blooded cynicism explains only a fraction of their error.
- dabockster 9y ago
  > I'm currently a contractor, and was told because of this that I may not become an actual hire They are never going to hire you. The contract is, in a way, a more airtight way of paying you under the table. Depending on the size of the business, labeling everyone as 1099 can reduce taxes for the business quite a bit. Thing is, though, is that it's illegal. But it's usually up to the worker to report it, so it is extremely under-enforced. Bottom line is that you're being abused. I encourage you to file Form SS-8 as soon as possible with the IRS and check into your state's labor office to see what they can do. https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-ss8 https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-ss8 Source: I left a contractor role in October after realizing that I was a victim of misclassification.
collyw 9y ago
I am surprised no companies offer noise cancelling headphones for staff. They are relatively cheap (compared to restructuring an office building) and could increase productivity a lot for some people.
- Game_Ender 9y ago
  Those headphones only block constant background noise, not conversations. In order to do that you have to put your hearing at risk with enough actual noise to overwhelm the rest.
  - collyw 9y ago
    I have tried some decent quality ones. They don't block out conversations completely, but it does sound a lot quieter. They are definitely an improvement over not wearing them.
    - dte22 9y ago
      Yep.. my Bose QC35's are amazing!
    - Declanomous 9y ago
      I tried this, and my problem was that I would end up with "listening fatigue" or whatever you want to call it after 6 hours of listening every day.
    - gulperxcx 9y ago
      I think he meant "conversations" as in someone walking up and interrupting you to have a conversation

loup-vaillant 9y ago

I tried, and nearly got fired for this. Well, not fired, but I'm currently a contractor, and was told because of this that I may not become an actual hire. (This has since settled down, but I'm still not hired because of unrelated issues —they're still waiting for a government grant.) The story is simple: we have a prefab building with 3 stories, a beautiful interior, 52 desks on each floor. All open, but for 2 closed meeting rooms per floor. And the toilet. The desks are arranged close to the window. The centre of the floor holds a couple meeting spaces, and the coffee machine. It was, unsurprisingly, very noisy. I talked about the issue during a sprint's retrospective, and was told to lay out my proposals to HR. I had plenty, most of which didn't involve actually chopping up the "lovely" open space into actual desks. It was mostly about putting dividing half walls and generally muffling the whole thing, while mostly preserving that "open" look that is so dear to whoever doesn't actually work there (funny how most people who condoned the open plan end up spending most of their time in meetings). I had indirect feedback later (through my team's product owner). Turned out the head HR was surprised to see me raise the subject—I was the first to do so. So she asked around. The feedback she got was mostly "well, yeah, it's an open plan, but it's okay", which she translated by "there is no problem, it's just a single contractor being difficult". I guess she was oblivious to the biases introduced by her being in a position of power. That nobody will say to her face that the noise is not okay, lest she thinks they can't fit in. (I no longer have that fear, for better or worse.) I have later learned that a "Life in the Open Plan" group formed because of the noise issue.

loorinm 9y ago
I honestly don’t know why so many companies are clinging to open offices with a death grip. Who does this benefit???
- loup-vaillant 9y ago
  Accounting. Open offices take less space, which is cheaper. The real costs are hidden, so they tend to be ignored. It also looks good from the outside.
  - Declanomous 9y ago
    Yeah, the funny thing is that the accountants and HR all had private offices with doors that locked because they dealt with confidential matters.
    - loup-vaillant 9y ago
      In our case, even the higher ups have their desk in the open plan. Closer to the corners of course, but still. And I think this actually contributes to the delusion of harmlessness of this environment. Having their desk in the open plan, they're more be inclined to think they are as affected as everyone else. Except they're not, because they spend way more time in meetings, and live on the manager's schedule. As far as I can tell, the higher ups actually do mean well. I'm not sure what drew them to the open plan, but I think cold blooded cynicism explains only a fraction of their error.
dabockster 9y ago
> I'm currently a contractor, and was told because of this that I may not become an actual hire They are never going to hire you. The contract is, in a way, a more airtight way of paying you under the table. Depending on the size of the business, labeling everyone as 1099 can reduce taxes for the business quite a bit. Thing is, though, is that it's illegal. But it's usually up to the worker to report it, so it is extremely under-enforced. Bottom line is that you're being abused. I encourage you to file Form SS-8 as soon as possible with the IRS and check into your state's labor office to see what they can do. https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-ss8 https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-ss8 Source: I left a contractor role in October after realizing that I was a victim of misclassification.

collyw 9y ago

I am surprised no companies offer noise cancelling headphones for staff. They are relatively cheap (compared to restructuring an office building) and could increase productivity a lot for some people.

Game_Ender 9y ago
Those headphones only block constant background noise, not conversations. In order to do that you have to put your hearing at risk with enough actual noise to overwhelm the rest.
- collyw 9y ago
  I have tried some decent quality ones. They don't block out conversations completely, but it does sound a lot quieter. They are definitely an improvement over not wearing them.
  - dte22 9y ago
    Yep.. my Bose QC35's are amazing!
  - Declanomous 9y ago
    I tried this, and my problem was that I would end up with "listening fatigue" or whatever you want to call it after 6 hours of listening every day.
  - gulperxcx 9y ago
    I think he meant "conversations" as in someone walking up and interrupting you to have a conversation