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> The govt blocking the access of similar foreign apps (Whatsapp, Skype etc.) to the Chinese people has some role to play in the popularity of it. This is not

> The govt blocking the access of similar foreign apps (Whatsapp, Skype etc.) to the Chinese people has some role to play in the popularity of it. This is not accurate. Along with WeChat and QQ, people can freely use Skype and MSN messenger in China. The success behind WeChat and QQ relies on their rich features, fast iterations, etc. I still remember that during the 360 vs Tencent event, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_v._Tencent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_v._Tencent, a lot of people switched to Skype as their communication tool to against the company Tencent, but not long after that people switched back to WeChat and QQ. It's simply because WeChat and QQ are easier to use.

xbeta 9y ago
> This is not accurate. Along with WeChat and QQ, people can freely use Skype and MSN messenger in China. The success behind WeChat and QQ relies on their rich features, fast iterations, etc. Really? I am not sure about Skype which is not even a strong contender anymore in our mobile generation, but WhatsApp is definitely blocked by China[1]. And MSN was dead long ago. [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/whatsapp-blocked-in-china/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/whatsapp-blocked-in-china/
- chingjun 9y ago
  WhatsApp was only started to be blocked recently (last year) when WeChat was already way ahead of WhatsApp in the market. WeChat's success was not due to lack of contender
  - xbeta 9y ago
    Fair enough, but does WhatsApp put out any market in China? The strategy is a completely different approach. WhatsApp simply building 1 product for the entire globe where WeChat just focus on 1 monoculture. Have WhatsApp spent effort to build "that product" to China, and they would fail on it. And I don't see WhatsApp is super pissed that they lost this 1.3B market anyway. And in a hindsight, it is probably better for WhatsApp to not build "that app" for China. Imagine spending all those resources, money into a product and simply turn off by China government overnight. It's a big loss for that investment. TL;DR do not enter China if you haven't yet finished conquered the entire world.
    - rxin 9y ago
      I live in the Bay Area and I use both WhatsApp and WeChat and I would say WeChat is a significantly better product, with more features and better video/audio quality. When I visit China, WeChat is another order of magnitude more indispensable due to its great integration with all the other services (eg, mobile payment penetration through WeChat effectively 100%).
      - xbeta 9y ago
        Hmm... I don't know, but my app is less heavyweight on said WhatsApp than a bloated WeChat. But that's my opinion. When I send a message, why does it need to be so bloated. I just wanna send a message. Does being lightweight a feature too?
        rxin 9y ago
        What's bloated about it? From the UX point of view, it's pretty lightweight for most common operations. Goes into the app, finds the contact, sends message, done. There is virtually no difference between WeChat, WhatsApp, and Apple's own Messages. For many other operations that are less common, WeChat is easier to use and manage (e.g. sending emojis, voice memo, photos). From an app size point of view, I just checked on my iPhone. WeChat takes up 157.3MB, whereas WhatsApp takes up 105.9MB. The difference seems minor (just a few photos).
        mcny 9y ago
        WeChat's success is something I find... strange. I just thought uses don't want everything and the kitchen sink in the same app but we chat success story shows I'm wrong? I still don't get it. I have that Facebook messenger even has draw over other apps permission on Android. I hate the pop up chat. Am I out of touch?
        socceroos 9y ago
        ...I sense an oncoming existential crisis.
  - Markoff 9y ago
    whatsapp calls are blocked or unusable already for years trust me I tried when I lived there, messages work but forget about video and audio, only international service which worked was Skype but even that fails most of the time, so your option are obscure messengers and less known webrtc sites
- contingencies 9y ago
  Used Skype yesterday.
- geowwy 9y ago
  Skype is used a lot by businesses. When Skype introduced end-to-end encryption the government tried to block it, but the backlash from businesses in China was so big they had to unblock it.
- est 9y ago
  Skype has a tailored edition http://skype.gmw.cn http://skype.gmw.cn
pmlnr 9y ago
MSN has been dead for years, how can people in China freely use it?
- petre 9y ago
  Probably because it's dead and unencrypted to concern the Chinese government. I wonder if you can use Pidgin with OTR encryption on top of MSN for subversive conversations.
- analogic 9y ago
  MSN shall rise again! dakka dakka
NoPiece 9y ago
I hadn't realized that QQ and WeChat are part of Tencent, but are part of different divisions. It would be interesting to know how collaborative or rivalrous the relation between them is.
- TACIXAT 9y ago
  QQ was a desktop focused app and WeChat was a ground up write of messaging for mobile. Competing against themselves is pretty brilliant IMO, it creates alternatives for the users but still allows their company to own the market. Interesting YC blog about Tencent and WeChat. [1] 1. http://blog.ycombinator.com/lessons-from-wechat/ http://blog.ycombinator.com/lessons-from-wechat/
oh-kumudo 9y ago
Skype is blocked I guess? MSN is long dead. FB Messenger/WhatsApp or any Google related products aren't available, due to the great great Firewall. WeChat is great, but pretend there is no protectionism around it is also disingenuous. Disclaimer: Chinese.
- xbeta 9y ago
  Well, I think it's not just simply "protectionism", but because the Chinese government really want to enforce censorship on all digital products used by people living in China. When Google refuse to follow that, they are just simply not allowed. I have seen foreign companies built products in China but they all have to agree to these censorship laws. Disclaimer: Chinese too. :-)
rqs 9y ago
> not long after that people switched back to WeChat and QQ. It's simply because WeChat and QQ are easier to use. That is not completely right. People switch back because most of their contacts are using QQ and WeChat. And that's actually why people keep using Tencent product -- because all your friends are using it, your mom using it, your boss using it, so you have to. In fact, I think most of those IM's gaining their user base because of this. Also, encouraging Chinese people using domestic services is good for government, as they had better control of those services. So they did, by selectively making foreign services unstable. Censorship is not just a mean of control, it's also a business: Government wants control, company wants money, so they formed an alliance to get what they want.
- mcny 9y ago
  > And that's actually why people keep using Tencent product -- because all your friends are using it, your mom using it, your boss using it, so you have to. In fact, I think most of those IM's gaining their user base because of this. Is it cultural? I use signal. Most of my contacts don't use signal. I've forced the people I talk to the most to get signal. For everyone else, I'll use WhatsApp or just text. I don't need everyone to use something for me to use that thing. In fact, the day my mum joins Snapchat will be the day I'll uninstall it for good.
  - rqs 9y ago
    Maybe cultural related, but I don't really know. In China, we have a some sort of social phenomenon called "Herd behavior"[0], simply put: If something is popular in crowd, then it tend to be more popular. Also, I found that most Chinese people are lack of motion of trying something new: If something works, then we'll keep using it and stop worrying about it until it breaks. > I've forced the people I talk to the most to get signal. In China, this hardly works, because people you try to convincing may also binded to WeChat by their contacts. So a easier choice for them is just to silently ditch you. (Of course, dad and mom are more likely to stick with whatever chat service you're using, so :DDDD) BTW: There are no encrypted chat service in China, and Chinese people don't care too much of their privacy (By western standard). So if you tell them: We should not let government listening our conversations, let's use Signal! You will usually get replies like: Yes, just let them listen, I have nothing to hide. And keep using WeChat. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior#Everyday_decision-making https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior#Everyday_decisio...
Elect2 9y ago
We are talking about WeChat, not "WeChat and QQ". Don't misleading others. QQ vs (Whatsapp, Skype, MSN messager, etc) WeChat vs (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc)
Markoff 9y ago
Skype video and audio it's crippled with speed to such extent it's unusable for most of the time so yeah, technically you are correct, it's not blocked, it just doesn't work which is de facto same thing for end user deciding what app to use lived in China for many years, it was frustrating I could not talk with my family abroad, apparently too dangerous for Chinese Gov to let me talk with my parents and I am not gonna ask people outside China to install spyware like QQ or WeChat. the saddest part it's unless you wanna completely cut the ties you still need to keep it installed like my wife does (I cut the ties with non VPN folks), any other reasonable option would be freezing and unfreezing on demand which kinda ruins messaging experience and might as well use email

xbeta 9y ago

> This is not accurate. Along with WeChat and QQ, people can freely use Skype and MSN messenger in China. The success behind WeChat and QQ relies on their rich features, fast iterations, etc. Really? I am not sure about Skype which is not even a strong contender anymore in our mobile generation, but WhatsApp is definitely blocked by China[1]. And MSN was dead long ago. [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/whatsapp-blocked-in-china/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/whatsapp-blocked-in-china/

chingjun 9y ago
WhatsApp was only started to be blocked recently (last year) when WeChat was already way ahead of WhatsApp in the market. WeChat's success was not due to lack of contender
- xbeta 9y ago
  Fair enough, but does WhatsApp put out any market in China? The strategy is a completely different approach. WhatsApp simply building 1 product for the entire globe where WeChat just focus on 1 monoculture. Have WhatsApp spent effort to build "that product" to China, and they would fail on it. And I don't see WhatsApp is super pissed that they lost this 1.3B market anyway. And in a hindsight, it is probably better for WhatsApp to not build "that app" for China. Imagine spending all those resources, money into a product and simply turn off by China government overnight. It's a big loss for that investment. TL;DR do not enter China if you haven't yet finished conquered the entire world.
  - rxin 9y ago
    I live in the Bay Area and I use both WhatsApp and WeChat and I would say WeChat is a significantly better product, with more features and better video/audio quality. When I visit China, WeChat is another order of magnitude more indispensable due to its great integration with all the other services (eg, mobile payment penetration through WeChat effectively 100%).
    - xbeta 9y ago
      Hmm... I don't know, but my app is less heavyweight on said WhatsApp than a bloated WeChat. But that's my opinion. When I send a message, why does it need to be so bloated. I just wanna send a message. Does being lightweight a feature too?
      - rxin 9y ago
        What's bloated about it? From the UX point of view, it's pretty lightweight for most common operations. Goes into the app, finds the contact, sends message, done. There is virtually no difference between WeChat, WhatsApp, and Apple's own Messages. For many other operations that are less common, WeChat is easier to use and manage (e.g. sending emojis, voice memo, photos). From an app size point of view, I just checked on my iPhone. WeChat takes up 157.3MB, whereas WhatsApp takes up 105.9MB. The difference seems minor (just a few photos).
        mcny 9y ago
        WeChat's success is something I find... strange. I just thought uses don't want everything and the kitchen sink in the same app but we chat success story shows I'm wrong? I still don't get it. I have that Facebook messenger even has draw over other apps permission on Android. I hate the pop up chat. Am I out of touch?
        socceroos 9y ago
        ...I sense an oncoming existential crisis.
- Markoff 9y ago
  whatsapp calls are blocked or unusable already for years trust me I tried when I lived there, messages work but forget about video and audio, only international service which worked was Skype but even that fails most of the time, so your option are obscure messengers and less known webrtc sites
contingencies 9y ago
Used Skype yesterday.
geowwy 9y ago
Skype is used a lot by businesses. When Skype introduced end-to-end encryption the government tried to block it, but the backlash from businesses in China was so big they had to unblock it.
est 9y ago
Skype has a tailored edition http://skype.gmw.cn http://skype.gmw.cn

pmlnr 9y ago

MSN has been dead for years, how can people in China freely use it?

petre 9y ago
Probably because it's dead and unencrypted to concern the Chinese government. I wonder if you can use Pidgin with OTR encryption on top of MSN for subversive conversations.
analogic 9y ago
MSN shall rise again! dakka dakka

NoPiece 9y ago

I hadn't realized that QQ and WeChat are part of Tencent, but are part of different divisions. It would be interesting to know how collaborative or rivalrous the relation between them is.

TACIXAT 9y ago
QQ was a desktop focused app and WeChat was a ground up write of messaging for mobile. Competing against themselves is pretty brilliant IMO, it creates alternatives for the users but still allows their company to own the market. Interesting YC blog about Tencent and WeChat. [1] 1. http://blog.ycombinator.com/lessons-from-wechat/ http://blog.ycombinator.com/lessons-from-wechat/

oh-kumudo 9y ago

Skype is blocked I guess? MSN is long dead. FB Messenger/WhatsApp or any Google related products aren't available, due to the great great Firewall. WeChat is great, but pretend there is no protectionism around it is also disingenuous. Disclaimer: Chinese.

xbeta 9y ago
Well, I think it's not just simply "protectionism", but because the Chinese government really want to enforce censorship on all digital products used by people living in China. When Google refuse to follow that, they are just simply not allowed. I have seen foreign companies built products in China but they all have to agree to these censorship laws. Disclaimer: Chinese too. :-)

rqs 9y ago

> not long after that people switched back to WeChat and QQ. It's simply because WeChat and QQ are easier to use. That is not completely right. People switch back because most of their contacts are using QQ and WeChat. And that's actually why people keep using Tencent product -- because all your friends are using it, your mom using it, your boss using it, so you have to. In fact, I think most of those IM's gaining their user base because of this. Also, encouraging Chinese people using domestic services is good for government, as they had better control of those services. So they did, by selectively making foreign services unstable. Censorship is not just a mean of control, it's also a business: Government wants control, company wants money, so they formed an alliance to get what they want.

mcny 9y ago
> And that's actually why people keep using Tencent product -- because all your friends are using it, your mom using it, your boss using it, so you have to. In fact, I think most of those IM's gaining their user base because of this. Is it cultural? I use signal. Most of my contacts don't use signal. I've forced the people I talk to the most to get signal. For everyone else, I'll use WhatsApp or just text. I don't need everyone to use something for me to use that thing. In fact, the day my mum joins Snapchat will be the day I'll uninstall it for good.
- rqs 9y ago
  Maybe cultural related, but I don't really know. In China, we have a some sort of social phenomenon called "Herd behavior"[0], simply put: If something is popular in crowd, then it tend to be more popular. Also, I found that most Chinese people are lack of motion of trying something new: If something works, then we'll keep using it and stop worrying about it until it breaks. > I've forced the people I talk to the most to get signal. In China, this hardly works, because people you try to convincing may also binded to WeChat by their contacts. So a easier choice for them is just to silently ditch you. (Of course, dad and mom are more likely to stick with whatever chat service you're using, so :DDDD) BTW: There are no encrypted chat service in China, and Chinese people don't care too much of their privacy (By western standard). So if you tell them: We should not let government listening our conversations, let's use Signal! You will usually get replies like: Yes, just let them listen, I have nothing to hide. And keep using WeChat. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior#Everyday_decision-making https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior#Everyday_decisio...

Elect2 9y ago

We are talking about WeChat, not "WeChat and QQ". Don't misleading others. QQ vs (Whatsapp, Skype, MSN messager, etc) WeChat vs (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc)

Markoff 9y ago

Skype video and audio it's crippled with speed to such extent it's unusable for most of the time so yeah, technically you are correct, it's not blocked, it just doesn't work which is de facto same thing for end user deciding what app to use lived in China for many years, it was frustrating I could not talk with my family abroad, apparently too dangerous for Chinese Gov to let me talk with my parents and I am not gonna ask people outside China to install spyware like QQ or WeChat. the saddest part it's unless you wanna completely cut the ties you still need to keep it installed like my wife does (I cut the ties with non VPN folks), any other reasonable option would be freezing and unfreezing on demand which kinda ruins messaging experience and might as well use email