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https://as.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7s9b9p/tesla_allegedly_on_autopilot_hits_firetruck_with/dt7fgq6/ https://as.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7s9b9

https://as.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7s9b9p/tesla_allegedly_on_autopilot_hits_firetruck_with/dt7fgq6/ https://as.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7s9b9p/tesla_al...

Someone1234 9y ago
So unverified, and if verified the auto-pilot system was following dangerously closely?
- tbirrell 9y ago
  I was in a crash some time ago where the car in front of me jumped out of the way because the guy in front of him was at a dead stop. A "safe distance" for following a car that will have to decelerate to stop moving is a lot different if you are approaching a stationary object. It's not fair to expect either a human or computer to meet the latter standard on a highway were you expect everything to be moving at a speed close to the speed limit. There is a reason you can get a ticket for driving too slow.
- jws 9y ago
  Suggested highway following distance is two seconds. This gives you time to react to a decelerating vehicle. It is not sufficient time to stop if a stationary object appears, either because the vehicle in front dodges out of lane, drives over it with higher clearance than you have, or plows into it. It is entirely possible for the vehicle ahead to have an escape path to another lane but you to be pinned in your lane. Our traffic laws don’t provide for a zero accident environment. They just reduce the damage and suffering to a level society will tolerate.
  - kbutler 9y ago
    > Suggested highway following distance is two seconds. Suggested by tailgaters? 1) A two-second rule is insufficient. 2) You need more time if you can't see around or through the vehicle ahead of you (and various other reasons, like weather, road conditions, being followed by a tailgater, etc.) California driver handbook: """ Most rear end collisions are caused by tailgating. To avoid tailgating, use the “3 second rule”: ... You should allow for 4 or more seconds or when:... Following large vehicles that block your view ahead. The extra space allows you to see around the vehicle. """
    - barrkel 9y ago
      At 80mph, 2 seconds is about 240 feet (72 metres); 3 seconds 360 feet (108 metres). I'd expect to have my safety buffer merged into with a three second gap. It can still happen with a 2 second gap, but it's a lot less likely.
      - sangnoir 9y ago
        > I'd expect to have my safety buffer merged into with a three second gap. Does this happen frequently enough for you to ignore safety concerns? If so, you should be able to live(or not) with the tradeoff you are making.
        barrkel 9y ago
        The large gaps mean you need to continuously slow down for the people merging in - overall it decreases safety, IMO.
      - kbutler 9y ago
        So you are willing to reduce your safety to stay ahead of the guy in the other lane. Traffic flows best when drivers allow merges, not when they try to close gaps to prevent merges. Most aggressive mergers will quickly merge out as well. You may even get some "thank you" waves...
        barrkel 9y ago
        I'm not talking about closing gaps to prevent merges, but leaving a compromise between continuously merging traffic in front of you - requiring you to slow down continuously but randomly - vs maintaining a steady speed with a predictable buffer.
    - jws 9y ago
      Most US States say two seconds. Some say three. German law requires 0.9 seconds, but studies show 41% of drivers there follow closer in relaxed conditions!† Out here in the relaxed midwest most drivers in 60mph traffic seem to follow about 1.5 seconds. It looks like highway planners expect to get 1900 vehicles per lane per hour at saturation, that averages 1.9 seconds between cars. ␄ † https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-second_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-second_rule (wherein it proclaims sleep impaired drivers in bad conditions should leave 6 seconds). If you think you need a six second reaction time, pull over and get out of the car.

https://as.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7s9b9p/tesla_allegedly_on_autopilot_hits_firetruck_with/dt7fgq6/ https://as.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/7s9b9p/tesla_al...

Someone1234 9y ago

So unverified, and if verified the auto-pilot system was following dangerously closely?

tbirrell 9y ago
I was in a crash some time ago where the car in front of me jumped out of the way because the guy in front of him was at a dead stop. A "safe distance" for following a car that will have to decelerate to stop moving is a lot different if you are approaching a stationary object. It's not fair to expect either a human or computer to meet the latter standard on a highway were you expect everything to be moving at a speed close to the speed limit. There is a reason you can get a ticket for driving too slow.
jws 9y ago
Suggested highway following distance is two seconds. This gives you time to react to a decelerating vehicle. It is not sufficient time to stop if a stationary object appears, either because the vehicle in front dodges out of lane, drives over it with higher clearance than you have, or plows into it. It is entirely possible for the vehicle ahead to have an escape path to another lane but you to be pinned in your lane. Our traffic laws don’t provide for a zero accident environment. They just reduce the damage and suffering to a level society will tolerate.
- kbutler 9y ago
  > Suggested highway following distance is two seconds. Suggested by tailgaters? 1) A two-second rule is insufficient. 2) You need more time if you can't see around or through the vehicle ahead of you (and various other reasons, like weather, road conditions, being followed by a tailgater, etc.) California driver handbook: """ Most rear end collisions are caused by tailgating. To avoid tailgating, use the “3 second rule”: ... You should allow for 4 or more seconds or when:... Following large vehicles that block your view ahead. The extra space allows you to see around the vehicle. """
  - barrkel 9y ago
    At 80mph, 2 seconds is about 240 feet (72 metres); 3 seconds 360 feet (108 metres). I'd expect to have my safety buffer merged into with a three second gap. It can still happen with a 2 second gap, but it's a lot less likely.
    - sangnoir 9y ago
      > I'd expect to have my safety buffer merged into with a three second gap. Does this happen frequently enough for you to ignore safety concerns? If so, you should be able to live(or not) with the tradeoff you are making.
      - barrkel 9y ago
        The large gaps mean you need to continuously slow down for the people merging in - overall it decreases safety, IMO.
    - kbutler 9y ago
      So you are willing to reduce your safety to stay ahead of the guy in the other lane. Traffic flows best when drivers allow merges, not when they try to close gaps to prevent merges. Most aggressive mergers will quickly merge out as well. You may even get some "thank you" waves...
      - barrkel 9y ago
        I'm not talking about closing gaps to prevent merges, but leaving a compromise between continuously merging traffic in front of you - requiring you to slow down continuously but randomly - vs maintaining a steady speed with a predictable buffer.
  - jws 9y ago
    Most US States say two seconds. Some say three. German law requires 0.9 seconds, but studies show 41% of drivers there follow closer in relaxed conditions!† Out here in the relaxed midwest most drivers in 60mph traffic seem to follow about 1.5 seconds. It looks like highway planners expect to get 1900 vehicles per lane per hour at saturation, that averages 1.9 seconds between cars. ␄ † https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-second_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-second_rule (wherein it proclaims sleep impaired drivers in bad conditions should leave 6 seconds). If you think you need a six second reaction time, pull over and get out of the car.