4 ms·

> it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, The idea of going to phy

by NKZZ 9y ago

> it's a heck more convenient to have a car when you are regularly going to costco, ikea, trying out a new local bakery or restaurant, The idea of going to physical stores to browse articles has become mind numbing to me. 'Regularly going to costco, ikea' when I can just order on amazon, get ikea to deliver to my home, get non-perishable/fresh food online from supermarkets that do home deliveries, have 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for (European cities are nice like that). > We could still do many of those things when we didn't have a car, but it's far more boring Maybe for you. > far more exhausting Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting than going through the mad labyrinth of Ikea that was built to keep you in the store for the longest time possible. Just the thought of having to find the exit again makes me feel hypertension.

lhorie 9y ago
> Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting Fair. But on the other hand, having ice cream and meatballs at Ikea is a thing. You also need to account for cost of delivery and for returning things. And that's just ikea-related things we do. > 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for That describes downtown of any half decent metropolitan city anywhere, not just europe. I already mentioned the issue with that though: you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers. Nor are your family going to have easy access to the multitude of other things I didn't mention: fishing, strawberry picking, corn mazes, safari, skiing, lift lock tour, trips of various lengths are just _some_ of the many many things we did last year. Driving three towns over to ride in a carousel one afternoon "because my wife heard it was a nice one" is the sort of thing we've done just for the heck of it. Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-fusion-sushi-roll metrosexual lifestyle? Sure. But I think having a car opens a wider breadth of experiences.
- NKZZ 9y ago
  > you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers With two, that would be complicated. It's really not that uncommon to see parents ride with one though, with that sort of equipment : https://www.twowheelingtots.com/childbabybikeseatbuyingguide/ https://www.twowheelingtots.com/childbabybikeseatbuyingguide... > Nor are your family going to have easy access to the multitude of other things I didn't mention: fishing, strawberry picking, corn mazes, safari, skiing, trips of various lengths, lift lock tour are just _some_ of the many many things we did last year. That really depends on location. Living in a southern French town that has public transportation (bus and tramway) that leads to nice beach towns in 20 to 30 min, fishing is not an activity we lack. Leaving the city to get to the bordering countryside for activities like picking fruits, nuts and wild vegetables also takes about 30 min. When I was a kid I didn't need for my father to be home and drive me around if I wanted to go out and have fun eating wild nuts and berries. France has a powerful train network and no matter where you live here, you're always close to a ski station, kinda. > Drive three towns over one afternoon to ride in a carousel "because my wife heard it was a nice one" is the sort of thing we've done for the heck of it. And the sort of attitude your grand-children will rightly judge you for considering the horrible impact your vacuous consumerism you're calling 'breadth' of experiences is having on this world. I would have abstained from this remark were it not for this latter quip : > Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-crepe metrosexual lifestyle? So, if we're not proudly rolling coal we are instagramming metrosexuals, probably wearing fedoras and tipping it at m'lady? have you gone and looked at a mirror yet? This thread in general was one of the most revealing thing I've ever read about Americans and their view of the world. Particularly the guy who wouldn't even walk one kilometer : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162504 And the other one to comment on wutaboutwinter. Maybe it's time we hit the reset button on civilization.
  - lhorie 9y ago
    > That really depends on location True. Where I grew up, the closest beach was an hour and a half drive away. Closest ski station was in a different country. Wasn't exactly safe to step out of the house to begin with though, being close to slums and all. I consider myself lucky to be able to share different kinds of experiences with my kids now even though the public transport system in north america doesn't help me. > the sort of attitude your grand-children will rightly judge you for considering the horrible impact your vacuous consumerism you're calling 'breadth' of experiences is having on this world You're right, I should just throw my car in the sea. If I also throw out my computer, my grandchildren will be proud that I tried to help bankrupt the ecology-destroying companies that mine rare metals for these gadgets you and I use to waste time online. OR I could just be honest with myself and acknowledge that I'm selfish despite knowing that merely existing is a huge burden on the planet. > So, if we're not proudly rolling coal we are instagramming metrosexuals I dunno what you do or didn't do with your life, or why you're acting defensive, and frankly I don't care. I literally said I could do that lifestyle, stereotypical as it may be, but that it would eventually feel somewhat monotonous to me now that I've had different experiences. I say this as someone who was extremely anti-car-ownership and changed minds once I had kids. Maybe you had it easy with safe ubiquitous public transportation and you're just trying to pull the tired europe-is-superior thing on me, but I've no allegiances in that game and I'm just talking about my experience with what I can pragmatically do for my kids with a car vs without. You do you.
    - lmm 9y ago
      > You're right, I should just throw my car in the sea. If I also throw out my computer, my grandchildren will be proud that I tried to help bankrupt the ecology-destroying companies that mine rare metals for these gadgets you and I use to waste time online. OR I could just be honest with myself and acknowledge that I'm selfish despite knowing that merely existing is a huge burden on the planet. You can have a sense of proportion about the fun:ecological impact ratio of the activities you do, and make choices in the light of that. My instinct is that "driving three towns over to ride in a carousel ... just for the heck of it" is in the same category as "tossed all our rubbish in a nearby field": the cost to other people is all out of whack with the benefit to you. I don't know whether that's actually true or not, but going on a long drive for something frivolous triggers the same skin-crawling reaction in me that tossing litter out of a window would. (My preferred solution would be carbon cap-and-trade (and land value taxes that would translate into road use fees and parking charges) so that car users bore the full costs of the externalities they were imposing, and then if you want to spend your discretionary income on frivolous car journeys that's up to you. But in the current regime I'd say there's a moral duty to minimize car travel or offset it somehow, because by taking a car journey you're imposing a cost on others, much more than just using a rare metal for a time)
- praneshp 9y ago
  > Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-fusion-sushi-roll metrosexual lifestyle? Sure. But I think having a car opens a wider breadth of experiences. Looks like your car hasn't given you any breadth in experiences.
- cr1895 9y ago
  >you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers. I just want to say: come visit the Netherlands sometime. It will surprise you. (granted, the cycling infra is far superior than most other places in the world)
  - lhorie 9y ago
    Ah, yeah, I've heard wonders about it. Would love to come visit. But yeah, you're right. When I was in Toronto, cycling from my apartment to work was just a 15 min ride, but it's definitely not something I would've felt safe doing w/ kids on the bike.

by NKZZ 9y ago

lhorie 9y ago

> Getting things delivered to your home is far less exhausting Fair. But on the other hand, having ice cream and meatballs at Ikea is a thing. You also need to account for cost of delivery and for returning things. And that's just ikea-related things we do. > 5 bakeries that I can get to in 5 minutes of bicycling and more restaurants than I could care for That describes downtown of any half decent metropolitan city anywhere, not just europe. I already mentioned the issue with that though: you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers. Nor are your family going to have easy access to the multitude of other things I didn't mention: fishing, strawberry picking, corn mazes, safari, skiing, lift lock tour, trips of various lengths are just _some_ of the many many things we did last year. Driving three towns over to ride in a carousel one afternoon "because my wife heard it was a nice one" is the sort of thing we've done just for the heck of it. Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-fusion-sushi-roll metrosexual lifestyle? Sure. But I think having a car opens a wider breadth of experiences.

NKZZ 9y ago
> you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers With two, that would be complicated. It's really not that uncommon to see parents ride with one though, with that sort of equipment : https://www.twowheelingtots.com/childbabybikeseatbuyingguide/ https://www.twowheelingtots.com/childbabybikeseatbuyingguide... > Nor are your family going to have easy access to the multitude of other things I didn't mention: fishing, strawberry picking, corn mazes, safari, skiing, trips of various lengths, lift lock tour are just _some_ of the many many things we did last year. That really depends on location. Living in a southern French town that has public transportation (bus and tramway) that leads to nice beach towns in 20 to 30 min, fishing is not an activity we lack. Leaving the city to get to the bordering countryside for activities like picking fruits, nuts and wild vegetables also takes about 30 min. When I was a kid I didn't need for my father to be home and drive me around if I wanted to go out and have fun eating wild nuts and berries. France has a powerful train network and no matter where you live here, you're always close to a ski station, kinda. > Drive three towns over one afternoon to ride in a carousel "because my wife heard it was a nice one" is the sort of thing we've done for the heck of it. And the sort of attitude your grand-children will rightly judge you for considering the horrible impact your vacuous consumerism you're calling 'breadth' of experiences is having on this world. I would have abstained from this remark were it not for this latter quip : > Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-crepe metrosexual lifestyle? So, if we're not proudly rolling coal we are instagramming metrosexuals, probably wearing fedoras and tipping it at m'lady? have you gone and looked at a mirror yet? This thread in general was one of the most revealing thing I've ever read about Americans and their view of the world. Particularly the guy who wouldn't even walk one kilometer : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162504 And the other one to comment on wutaboutwinter. Maybe it's time we hit the reset button on civilization.
- lhorie 9y ago
  > That really depends on location True. Where I grew up, the closest beach was an hour and a half drive away. Closest ski station was in a different country. Wasn't exactly safe to step out of the house to begin with though, being close to slums and all. I consider myself lucky to be able to share different kinds of experiences with my kids now even though the public transport system in north america doesn't help me. > the sort of attitude your grand-children will rightly judge you for considering the horrible impact your vacuous consumerism you're calling 'breadth' of experiences is having on this world You're right, I should just throw my car in the sea. If I also throw out my computer, my grandchildren will be proud that I tried to help bankrupt the ecology-destroying companies that mine rare metals for these gadgets you and I use to waste time online. OR I could just be honest with myself and acknowledge that I'm selfish despite knowing that merely existing is a huge burden on the planet. > So, if we're not proudly rolling coal we are instagramming metrosexuals I dunno what you do or didn't do with your life, or why you're acting defensive, and frankly I don't care. I literally said I could do that lifestyle, stereotypical as it may be, but that it would eventually feel somewhat monotonous to me now that I've had different experiences. I say this as someone who was extremely anti-car-ownership and changed minds once I had kids. Maybe you had it easy with safe ubiquitous public transportation and you're just trying to pull the tired europe-is-superior thing on me, but I've no allegiances in that game and I'm just talking about my experience with what I can pragmatically do for my kids with a car vs without. You do you.
  - lmm 9y ago
    > You're right, I should just throw my car in the sea. If I also throw out my computer, my grandchildren will be proud that I tried to help bankrupt the ecology-destroying companies that mine rare metals for these gadgets you and I use to waste time online. OR I could just be honest with myself and acknowledge that I'm selfish despite knowing that merely existing is a huge burden on the planet. You can have a sense of proportion about the fun:ecological impact ratio of the activities you do, and make choices in the light of that. My instinct is that "driving three towns over to ride in a carousel ... just for the heck of it" is in the same category as "tossed all our rubbish in a nearby field": the cost to other people is all out of whack with the benefit to you. I don't know whether that's actually true or not, but going on a long drive for something frivolous triggers the same skin-crawling reaction in me that tossing litter out of a window would. (My preferred solution would be carbon cap-and-trade (and land value taxes that would translate into road use fees and parking charges) so that car users bore the full costs of the externalities they were imposing, and then if you want to spend your discretionary income on frivolous car journeys that's up to you. But in the current regime I'd say there's a moral duty to minimize car travel or offset it somehow, because by taking a car journey you're imposing a cost on others, much more than just using a rare metal for a time)
praneshp 9y ago
> Could I do the instagramming-yet-another-fusion-sushi-roll metrosexual lifestyle? Sure. But I think having a car opens a wider breadth of experiences. Looks like your car hasn't given you any breadth in experiences.
cr1895 9y ago
>you can't do "5 minutes of bycicling" when you have 2 toddlers. I just want to say: come visit the Netherlands sometime. It will surprise you. (granted, the cycling infra is far superior than most other places in the world)
- lhorie 9y ago
  Ah, yeah, I've heard wonders about it. Would love to come visit. But yeah, you're right. When I was in Toronto, cycling from my apartment to work was just a 15 min ride, but it's definitely not something I would've felt safe doing w/ kids on the bike.