6 ms·

By renouncing citizenship he probably did the US a favor. http://www.philosophersbeard.org/2012/04/what-to-do-about-rich.html?m=1 http://www.philosophersbeard.

by dub4u 9y ago

By renouncing citizenship he probably did the US a favor. http://www.philosophersbeard.org/2012/04/what-to-do-about-rich.html?m=1 http://www.philosophersbeard.org/2012/04/what-to-do-about-ri... Let them decide: give some of your wealth to finance BI or else renounce citizenship.

mantas 9y ago
You'd have to ban them owning property or businesses in the country too. Otherwise they'd just stay but without citizenship or taxes.
- mcny 9y ago
  > You'd have to ban them owning property or businesses in the country too. Otherwise they'd just stay but without citizenship or taxes. This is why we need the estate tax (Paris Hilton tax or death tax as opponents like to say) to stay and probably increase in rate. > For 2017, the estate and gift tax exemption is $5.49 million per individual, up from $5.45 million in 2016. That means an individual can leave $5.49 million to heirs and pay no federal estate or gift tax. This is plenty generous. We should tax any estate beyond that at a minimum of fifty percent and close all loopholes. I am not a big fan of income tax on businesses but I can see why we need it.
  - mantas 9y ago
    > This is why we need the estate tax (Paris Hilton tax or death tax as opponents like to say) to stay and probably increase in rate. How is it relevant to giving up citizenship and owning property or company? There's no death involved. If their children are not citizen either, they are not hit by inheritance tax too. > I am not a big fan of income tax on businesses but I can see why we need it. VAT is sort of like income tax for businesses. Except it's not taxed on B2B transactions. Which makes sense. Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs.
    - mcny 9y ago
      > How is it relevant to giving up citizenship and owning property or company? There's no death involved. If their children are not citizen either, they are not hit by inheritance tax too. Doesn't sound right but I am not an accountant. If someone makes money in the US, they should have to pay income tax in the US regardless of citizenship or residency status, even if they have never entered the US. I consider anything less a loophole we need to fix. If the property is just sitting there not making money, they are welcome to keep paying property taxes and pay income tax if/when they sell it. I sincerely believe you have to pay income tax for any income in the US regardless of citizenship status or residency status. > Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs. Don't we already have that?
      - mantas 9y ago
        > Doesn't sound right but I am not an accountant. If someone makes money in the US, they should have to pay income tax in the US regardless of citizenship or residency status, even if they have never entered the US. I consider anything less a loophole we need to fix. Which is not the same as estate/inheritance/death tax at all. Which is double-taxing what a given person already paid for. Being a (grand)son of someone ain't a job to pay incomes tax for.. :) On top of that, there're lots of ways to dodge the US income tax. For example, many countries have double-tax agreements. Where you pay taxes in your residence country. Stay 185 days in the other country, do most of the business remotely and you can forget US incomes tax. > > Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs. > Don't we already have that? Huh? There're lots of SMBs in pretty much any country in the world. And most people are employed by them, not by a bunch of mega companies.
        mcny 9y ago
        > Which is not the same as estate/inheritance/death tax at all. Which is double-taxing what a given person already paid for. Being a (grand)son of someone ain't a job to pay incomes tax for.. :) Double taxing happens all the time. There is no rhyme or reason to tax policy. It just is. Why should I pay sales tax when I've already paid income tax? Why should a corporation pay income tax if shareholders will also pay income tax? This is a red herring. Property must not pass generation to generation unscathed. Too much concentration of wealth is good for nobody, even for the 0.0001% > On top of that, there're lots of ways to dodge the US income tax. For example, many countries have double-tax agreements. Where you pay taxes in your residence country. Stay 185 days in the other country, do most of the business remotely and you can forget US incomes tax. As with peering, I am sure there are knowledgeable people in positions whose job it is to ensure that we get something out of these double-tax agreements. If these entities become a nuisance, there are many ways (preferably peaceful) to deal with them.
  - Stefstefstef 9y ago
    thats insane thats about 10X more than we have in Europe
    - mcny 9y ago
      My proposal is only 50% for inheritance above the limit (and likely 0%) under the limit. So if you want to leave $6M, and the limit is $5.95M then taxes are due only $0.05M. that's just $25k in taxes on a $6M wealth transfer.
- azernik 9y ago
  When you renounce your citizenship, you don't get a green card - you become a foreigner, with no right to live and work in the country. Depending on your new citizenship, you may have the right to visit visa-free, but that's it.

by dub4u 9y ago

mantas 9y ago

You'd have to ban them owning property or businesses in the country too. Otherwise they'd just stay but without citizenship or taxes.

mcny 9y ago
> You'd have to ban them owning property or businesses in the country too. Otherwise they'd just stay but without citizenship or taxes. This is why we need the estate tax (Paris Hilton tax or death tax as opponents like to say) to stay and probably increase in rate. > For 2017, the estate and gift tax exemption is $5.49 million per individual, up from $5.45 million in 2016. That means an individual can leave $5.49 million to heirs and pay no federal estate or gift tax. This is plenty generous. We should tax any estate beyond that at a minimum of fifty percent and close all loopholes. I am not a big fan of income tax on businesses but I can see why we need it.
- mantas 9y ago
  > This is why we need the estate tax (Paris Hilton tax or death tax as opponents like to say) to stay and probably increase in rate. How is it relevant to giving up citizenship and owning property or company? There's no death involved. If their children are not citizen either, they are not hit by inheritance tax too. > I am not a big fan of income tax on businesses but I can see why we need it. VAT is sort of like income tax for businesses. Except it's not taxed on B2B transactions. Which makes sense. Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs.
  - mcny 9y ago
    > How is it relevant to giving up citizenship and owning property or company? There's no death involved. If their children are not citizen either, they are not hit by inheritance tax too. Doesn't sound right but I am not an accountant. If someone makes money in the US, they should have to pay income tax in the US regardless of citizenship or residency status, even if they have never entered the US. I consider anything less a loophole we need to fix. If the property is just sitting there not making money, they are welcome to keep paying property taxes and pay income tax if/when they sell it. I sincerely believe you have to pay income tax for any income in the US regardless of citizenship status or residency status. > Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs. Don't we already have that?
    - mantas 9y ago
      > Doesn't sound right but I am not an accountant. If someone makes money in the US, they should have to pay income tax in the US regardless of citizenship or residency status, even if they have never entered the US. I consider anything less a loophole we need to fix. Which is not the same as estate/inheritance/death tax at all. Which is double-taxing what a given person already paid for. Being a (grand)son of someone ain't a job to pay incomes tax for.. :) On top of that, there're lots of ways to dodge the US income tax. For example, many countries have double-tax agreements. Where you pay taxes in your residence country. Stay 185 days in the other country, do most of the business remotely and you can forget US incomes tax. > > Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs. > Don't we already have that? Huh? There're lots of SMBs in pretty much any country in the world. And most people are employed by them, not by a bunch of mega companies.
      - mcny 9y ago
        > Which is not the same as estate/inheritance/death tax at all. Which is double-taxing what a given person already paid for. Being a (grand)son of someone ain't a job to pay incomes tax for.. :) Double taxing happens all the time. There is no rhyme or reason to tax policy. It just is. Why should I pay sales tax when I've already paid income tax? Why should a corporation pay income tax if shareholders will also pay income tax? This is a red herring. Property must not pass generation to generation unscathed. Too much concentration of wealth is good for nobody, even for the 0.0001% > On top of that, there're lots of ways to dodge the US income tax. For example, many countries have double-tax agreements. Where you pay taxes in your residence country. Stay 185 days in the other country, do most of the business remotely and you can forget US incomes tax. As with peering, I am sure there are knowledgeable people in positions whose job it is to ensure that we get something out of these double-tax agreements. If these entities become a nuisance, there are many ways (preferably peaceful) to deal with them.
- Stefstefstef 9y ago
  thats insane thats about 10X more than we have in Europe
  - mcny 9y ago
    My proposal is only 50% for inheritance above the limit (and likely 0%) under the limit. So if you want to leave $6M, and the limit is $5.95M then taxes are due only $0.05M. that's just $25k in taxes on a $6M wealth transfer.
azernik 9y ago
When you renounce your citizenship, you don't get a green card - you become a foreigner, with no right to live and work in the country. Depending on your new citizenship, you may have the right to visit visa-free, but that's it.