5 ms·

Like Brian Krebs said yesterday on his blog -- it seems like the doctrine of felony murder should apply here.

by copper_think 9y ago

qaq 9y ago
Doctrine of WTF is wrong with the Police should apply here.
- behringer 9y ago
  Can't you read? They found the real fall guy. I mean guy.
- IndrekR 9y ago
  Those two are not mutually exclusive.
  - qaq 9y ago
    You can not change the world to get rid of idiots you sure as hell can screen police officers for psychological fitness and train them to apply force in much more reserved fashion.
- guiambros 9y ago
  > ...WTF is wrong with the Police... WTF is wrong with a full-grown 25-year-old man, who thinks it's funny to waste scarce taxpayer funded resources for his own amusement, because he had a petty argument with a virtual stranger when playing an online game? Of course I'm not defending excessive use of police force, and the officer who fired the shot should be investigated too, but we need harsher penalties for swatting. The fact we have 400 cases per year [1] is unacceptable, and I hope these criminals go to jail for a long time. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2013/4/23/4253014/swatting-911-prank-wont-stop-hackers-celebrities https://www.theverge.com/2013/4/23/4253014/swatting-911-pran...
  - qaq 9y ago
    He should got to jail but if any random idiot can get any random person killed by the police that is a Police problem as we can have different training and screening procedures for police officers but we sure as hell can not guarantee that there are no idiots with access to phones.
    - guiambros 9y ago
      My point is: idiots with access to phones that do idiotic things should pay for the consequences of their acts -- regardless of how good or bad the police force is. In this case, an idiot caused the murder of an innocent man, and should pay for it, full stop. There's no ifs or buts. Of course this doesn't precludes police from making honest mistakes - or also doing idiotic things - but hopefully will remove the incentives from idiots-with-phones and their 400 potentially-deadly pranks per year. One thing does not exclude the other. But we can sure as hell eliminate the root cause by making an example of cases like this.
      - Malician 9y ago
        That's not the root cause. The root cause is that if the police show up they might open fire and kill someone. There are always going to be reasons for the police (or SWAT) to show up, especially with the war on drugs. And with the current environment, that means people dying. Of course, since most of the time it wasn't a SWAT call, and the person in question probably did have drugs, it's easier to totally blame the victim.
        guiambros 9y ago
        > The root cause is that if the police show up they might open fire and kill someone. So how do you reduce the number of times the police shows up randomly at your doorstep? Four hundred times per year, more precisely? That's the definition of "root cause". I get it, this is HN after all, and most here feel outraged by police brutality, particularly in the US - myself included. But instead of putting the blame on police officers - who are trying to decide in a fraction of a second if their lives is at risk or it's just another stupid case of CoD gamers pranking each other - to me the blame should go squarely to the idiots causing it.
paganel 9y ago
And what would that make the US police forces look like? To me, as an European, it makes them look like a weapon, which you can conjure by a simple phone-call. It doesn't have to be like this.
- _wmd 9y ago
  (As another European) it's hard to see any alternative for regular people whose profession just happens to put their life at almost permanent risk, thanks to the attitude toward guns over there. I'm not sure if in Europe we'd react any different -- if you called the police to report an in-progress shooting, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar trigger-happy result emerged
  - qaq 9y ago
    As a guy originally from Ukraine that as you can imagine has a fairly big problem with availability of weapons at the moment that police officer would go to jail. Having much stricter rules on when and how weapons can be used looks like a good thing.
  - jkestner 9y ago
    Lack of surprise should not mean resignation.
  - jmaygarden 9y ago
    The risk of gun violence against police is completely blown out of proportion. Of the reported police gun deaths each year, the overwhelming majority are suicides. The biggest real risk to police in the US is vehicle accidents from driving recklessly. Being a police officer isn’t even in the top 10 most dangerous professions. On the other hand, over a thousand people are killed by police in the US each year without due process.
- ethbro 9y ago
  It doesn't, but while it is, at least some safeguards could be put in place.
- rdtsc 9y ago

Like Brian Krebs said yesterday on his blog -- it seems like the doctrine of felony murder should apply here.

qaq 9y ago

Doctrine of WTF is wrong with the Police should apply here.

behringer 9y ago
Can't you read? They found the real fall guy. I mean guy.
IndrekR 9y ago
Those two are not mutually exclusive.
- qaq 9y ago
  You can not change the world to get rid of idiots you sure as hell can screen police officers for psychological fitness and train them to apply force in much more reserved fashion.
guiambros 9y ago
> ...WTF is wrong with the Police... WTF is wrong with a full-grown 25-year-old man, who thinks it's funny to waste scarce taxpayer funded resources for his own amusement, because he had a petty argument with a virtual stranger when playing an online game? Of course I'm not defending excessive use of police force, and the officer who fired the shot should be investigated too, but we need harsher penalties for swatting. The fact we have 400 cases per year [1] is unacceptable, and I hope these criminals go to jail for a long time. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2013/4/23/4253014/swatting-911-prank-wont-stop-hackers-celebrities https://www.theverge.com/2013/4/23/4253014/swatting-911-pran...
- qaq 9y ago
  He should got to jail but if any random idiot can get any random person killed by the police that is a Police problem as we can have different training and screening procedures for police officers but we sure as hell can not guarantee that there are no idiots with access to phones.
  - guiambros 9y ago
    My point is: idiots with access to phones that do idiotic things should pay for the consequences of their acts -- regardless of how good or bad the police force is. In this case, an idiot caused the murder of an innocent man, and should pay for it, full stop. There's no ifs or buts. Of course this doesn't precludes police from making honest mistakes - or also doing idiotic things - but hopefully will remove the incentives from idiots-with-phones and their 400 potentially-deadly pranks per year. One thing does not exclude the other. But we can sure as hell eliminate the root cause by making an example of cases like this.
    - Malician 9y ago
      That's not the root cause. The root cause is that if the police show up they might open fire and kill someone. There are always going to be reasons for the police (or SWAT) to show up, especially with the war on drugs. And with the current environment, that means people dying. Of course, since most of the time it wasn't a SWAT call, and the person in question probably did have drugs, it's easier to totally blame the victim.
      - guiambros 9y ago
        > The root cause is that if the police show up they might open fire and kill someone. So how do you reduce the number of times the police shows up randomly at your doorstep? Four hundred times per year, more precisely? That's the definition of "root cause". I get it, this is HN after all, and most here feel outraged by police brutality, particularly in the US - myself included. But instead of putting the blame on police officers - who are trying to decide in a fraction of a second if their lives is at risk or it's just another stupid case of CoD gamers pranking each other - to me the blame should go squarely to the idiots causing it.

paganel 9y ago

And what would that make the US police forces look like? To me, as an European, it makes them look like a weapon, which you can conjure by a simple phone-call. It doesn't have to be like this.

_wmd 9y ago
(As another European) it's hard to see any alternative for regular people whose profession just happens to put their life at almost permanent risk, thanks to the attitude toward guns over there. I'm not sure if in Europe we'd react any different -- if you called the police to report an in-progress shooting, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar trigger-happy result emerged
- qaq 9y ago
  As a guy originally from Ukraine that as you can imagine has a fairly big problem with availability of weapons at the moment that police officer would go to jail. Having much stricter rules on when and how weapons can be used looks like a good thing.
- jkestner 9y ago
  Lack of surprise should not mean resignation.
- jmaygarden 9y ago
  The risk of gun violence against police is completely blown out of proportion. Of the reported police gun deaths each year, the overwhelming majority are suicides. The biggest real risk to police in the US is vehicle accidents from driving recklessly. Being a police officer isn’t even in the top 10 most dangerous professions. On the other hand, over a thousand people are killed by police in the US each year without due process.
ethbro 9y ago
It doesn't, but while it is, at least some safeguards could be put in place.
rdtsc 9y ago