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> Crabs are self conscious too because they act with a purpose of self preservation, which requires knowledge of what is them and what is not them. It's a bit

by guuz 9y ago

> Crabs are self conscious too because they act with a purpose of self preservation, which requires knowledge of what is them and what is not them. It's a bit more complicated. Self consciousness is the ability to contemplate mental states, some philosophers say. Crabs do not contemplate their own mental states, they simply act and feel.

EGreg 9y ago
Ok well there you go. I was basing it on your earlier definition. So define the word contemplate. But do you see how defining things and using the subject and object makes it hard to ask any of the major questions?
- guuz 9y ago
  > Ok well there you go. I was basing it on your earlier definition. Sorry, but it was my first comment on the thread. You are confusing me with the guy that posted earlier. I apologize for entering in the middle of your conversation. > So define the word contemplate. Contemplate: to observe something and to entertain thoughts about it. Imply that self preservation is an example of self consciousness is not sufficient for me. Plants too react to stimuli and they don't even have a nervous system (edit: neurons are not a sine qua non condition, obviously. I was only pointing to the fact that simpler organisms react to the environment, it is one of the most basic evolutionary strategies). It is necessary something more. As the poster before me said, there are boundaries. They can be not clear, but they exist.
- mannykannot 9y ago
  Guuz's comment does not change the earlier definition (regardless of who stated it.) What it does do is point out a flaw in your argument from that definition to your claim that crabs are self-conscious.
  - EGreg 9y ago
    what is it like to be something which experiences and know you are that thing. According to this definition, crabs are self conscious.
    - mannykannot 9y ago
      As this is one of several places where you have asserted the same claim, one response is sufficient: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041077

by guuz 9y ago

EGreg 9y ago

Ok well there you go. I was basing it on your earlier definition. So define the word contemplate. But do you see how defining things and using the subject and object makes it hard to ask any of the major questions?

guuz 9y ago
> Ok well there you go. I was basing it on your earlier definition. Sorry, but it was my first comment on the thread. You are confusing me with the guy that posted earlier. I apologize for entering in the middle of your conversation. > So define the word contemplate. Contemplate: to observe something and to entertain thoughts about it. Imply that self preservation is an example of self consciousness is not sufficient for me. Plants too react to stimuli and they don't even have a nervous system (edit: neurons are not a sine qua non condition, obviously. I was only pointing to the fact that simpler organisms react to the environment, it is one of the most basic evolutionary strategies). It is necessary something more. As the poster before me said, there are boundaries. They can be not clear, but they exist.
mannykannot 9y ago
Guuz's comment does not change the earlier definition (regardless of who stated it.) What it does do is point out a flaw in your argument from that definition to your claim that crabs are self-conscious.
- EGreg 9y ago
  what is it like to be something which experiences and know you are that thing. According to this definition, crabs are self conscious.
  - mannykannot 9y ago
    As this is one of several places where you have asserted the same claim, one response is sufficient: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041077