7 ms·

New Tax Plan Calculator

mbrumlow 9y ago
Fairly sure some of these calculations are wrong or I need to get a new tax person. There is no way I will pay as little on the current bill as they think. I think it is making the current plan look way better than what I would actually pay and have been paying. This makes me distrust the what I would pay part. Edit. In fact both of the numbers for both plans are way less than any tax bill I have seen in the last few years. I would honestly take either of those over that I actually pay.
- ryannevius 9y ago
  In my case, the federal tax bill amount shown is ~1/3 of my actual.
  - quantdev 9y ago
    Are both of you incorrectly taking into account payroll taxes or AMT or state and local? It seems accurate to me.
    - strictnein 9y ago
      Yeah, this doesn't include SS or Medicare taxes, just federal income taxes.
    - mbrumlow 9y ago
      I am only looking at my federal tax bill. That being said the site seems to be giving me different numbers now that I am on a computer at home. I checked my phone (still had the tab open) and it was showing near half what the site is showing now. But now the site shows the new tax bill will save me money, when before it said I would pay more. The numbers I am getting on my computer are closer to the real numbers for the current plan. As far as somebody saying "current tax bill saved zero" being weird. Yea it is weird but not really an issue. Keeping the same plan won't save you anything, I would be more upset if it tried to suggest it did save you something.
  - mrexroad 9y ago
    Same. My actual federal tax bill is at least 1.5x what the calculator showed for current tax code. Other things seemed off by huge margin as well.
product50 9y ago
This is totally wrong. It doesn't take AMT into consideration at higher salary levels in the current tax system.
- maximlott 9y ago
  If you are in high-income, it links to a page that tells you how to figure out AMT yourself.
slg 9y ago
This says I will save a few thousand dollars. I am a single young person with no dependents and no debt and I make a six figure income that likely puts me in the top 10% of earners in this county. If anyone deserves a tax cut, it isn't me.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- coolso 9y ago
  Cool so will you be writing a check for the difference to the IRS as a “donation”? You can actually do that you know.
  - burkaman 9y ago
    I don't think you can donate to the IRS. You can do similar things, but none are quite the same as paying taxes. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/04/uncle_sam_wants_you_or_at_least_your_spare_change.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20... Also, the problem is that the government now has to plan its budget based on the new tax plan. Even if I donate a few thousand extra, that won't stop a lot of important programs from getting cut, and it won't stop general inequality from increasing.
    - ncallaway 9y ago
      You're correct that you don't donate to the IRS, specifically. You can write a check to the "United States Treasury", however. They will gladly cash your check.
  - ncallaway 9y ago
    I have written checks to the United States Treasury in the past to better cover what I think my tax obligations _should_ be. I have absolutely no faith in the current governance of the federal government, so I'll probably put my savings into a high yield savings account or a low-risk investment vehicle. When I again agree with the direction of the federal government, I'll pay this insane tax break back United States Treasury.
quantdev 9y ago
Surprised to see such a big tax decrease (~14%) even though my wife and I live in Manhattan and our state and local taxes are about ~10% effective. The loss of the state and local deductions is more than made up for by the drop in the marginal rates, apparently. Now, if we had other deductions (e.g., student loan, mortgage interest and tax, medical, etc.), I suspect we'd lose out here. I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion on HN, so let me say I don't believe we deserve such a large tax cut, but I'm glad to see this plan is not incentivizing debt or artificially inflating home prices as much as the current one.
- rottyguy 9y ago
  this probably removes the AMT if you're making < 500k individual or 1M married, which, for us, was huge last year.
  - maximlott 9y ago
    FYI that is a bit of an oversimplification. See the AMT page on TaxPlanCalculator.com/static/AMT.html to see if it really eliminates your AMT in that range.
rsync 9y ago
This does not take into account the changes to pass-through entities which I still don't fully understand ... When I say I don't fully understand them, what I mean is, it looks like they have changed pass-through entities into (effectively) negative pass through entities for up to 20% of before tax earnings ? And I think this is for "draw" or "dividend" income that you extract from the entity ? So it's like santa claus came and gave me an enormous gift that I never even dreamed of asking for ? There must be something I am missing here ...
- ncallaway 9y ago
  No, there's not. It's something I was discussing with an accountant when these tax proposals were first being discussed. The accountant _would not accept_ what I was describing as their proposed pass-through treatment of income because it would be _ludicrous_. Ultimately, though, that's what they did. I get a _huge_ tax break that I don't want and don't need, because we happened to structure our business as a partnership instead of an LLC.
  - Justin_K 9y ago
    Use the tax break to pay for increased healthcare costs!
  - coolso 9y ago
    I’ll take it off your hands! I just sent my name and address to you via PM, but let me know if you’d prefer to send through PayPal instead of a check.
    - ncallaway 9y ago
      No thanks! I'm going to put it into a savings account or low risk investment, and write a check to the US Treasury at a time when I have more faith in the federal government.
      - coolso 9y ago
        So... you do want the huge tax break then? Hopefully you'll consider donating at least some (perhaps even all) of that tax break money to a homeless shelter or a food bank, maybe an animal shelter as well, especially this time of the year. That would definitely make that money go much further than it would if you paid it in taxes or sent it to the Treasury, be it this year or 10 years from now.
notacoward 9y ago
According to this I'm saving quite a bit. This year. Next year, not so much. Year after that, even less. It's like if I offered you a job at a really nice starting salary, but decreasing over the next few years to even less than you make already. Apparently a lot of people are stupid enough to accept that deal, and the folks in DC are dishonest enough to offer it. That's even before we consider how things will look in ten more years, as the deficit interest piles up and everyone's earning power is less than it would have been with a healthier economy.
ideonexus 9y ago
I am very confused by "Current Tax System You'd save $0" part. This makes no sense and reeks of snakeoil. Then I looked up who created this calculator, and it's Maximm Lott, a writer for Fox News who's twitter retweets Republican talking points and is bending over backwards to sell this plan: https://twitter.com/maximlott?lang=en https://twitter.com/maximlott?lang=en This propaganda has no business on HN. If you want a tax plan calculator, use the NYT's.
- coolso 9y ago
  Was the irony in your last paragraph intentional?
- lumberjack 9y ago
  The NYT did seem to put more effort into it: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-calculator.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-ca... At least it looks nicer.
  - byproxy 9y ago
    I quite like the no-frills approach of the originally posted calculator. It's kind of refreshing.
- quantdev 9y ago
  Who cares who created it? The calculation is laid out and unless you have an error to present, you're criticism is invalid. It looks correct to me and is obviously more featured than the NYTs calculator which only allows you to pick ranges and subsets.
  - mrexroad 9y ago
    This one was off by a tremendous amount for me. From any user expectations POV, the NYT calculator didn’t allow as many inputs, which forced me to accept that it would be ballpark approximation at best. However, the visuals gave me a good idea of which variables (income, itemized deductions) would push me closer to seeing a decrease vs increase in my tax bill.
teilo 9y ago
The big unknown with this tax bill, is how the states will react. My adjusted gross income goes up substantially because of the elimination of the personal exemption, but my child tax credits offset this - but only at the federal level. However, at the state level (in Minnesota), I get no child tax credits. This means I suddenly have a 10% increase in my AGI (with no corresponding increase in gross income to show for it) that will suddenly be taxable at the state level, because state taxes are keyed off of federal AGI.

Fairly sure some of these calculations are wrong or I need to get a new tax person. There is no way I will pay as little on the current bill as they think. I think it is making the current plan look way better than what I would actually pay and have been paying. This makes me distrust the what I would pay part. Edit. In fact both of the numbers for both plans are way less than any tax bill I have seen in the last few years. I would honestly take either of those over that I actually pay.

ryannevius 9y ago
In my case, the federal tax bill amount shown is ~1/3 of my actual.
- quantdev 9y ago
  Are both of you incorrectly taking into account payroll taxes or AMT or state and local? It seems accurate to me.
  - strictnein 9y ago
    Yeah, this doesn't include SS or Medicare taxes, just federal income taxes.
  - mbrumlow 9y ago
    I am only looking at my federal tax bill. That being said the site seems to be giving me different numbers now that I am on a computer at home. I checked my phone (still had the tab open) and it was showing near half what the site is showing now. But now the site shows the new tax bill will save me money, when before it said I would pay more. The numbers I am getting on my computer are closer to the real numbers for the current plan. As far as somebody saying "current tax bill saved zero" being weird. Yea it is weird but not really an issue. Keeping the same plan won't save you anything, I would be more upset if it tried to suggest it did save you something.
- mrexroad 9y ago
  Same. My actual federal tax bill is at least 1.5x what the calculator showed for current tax code. Other things seemed off by huge margin as well.

product50 9y ago

This is totally wrong. It doesn't take AMT into consideration at higher salary levels in the current tax system.

maximlott 9y ago
If you are in high-income, it links to a page that tells you how to figure out AMT yourself.

slg 9y ago

This says I will save a few thousand dollars. I am a single young person with no dependents and no debt and I make a six figure income that likely puts me in the top 10% of earners in this county. If anyone deserves a tax cut, it isn't me.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
coolso 9y ago
Cool so will you be writing a check for the difference to the IRS as a “donation”? You can actually do that you know.
- burkaman 9y ago
  I don't think you can donate to the IRS. You can do similar things, but none are quite the same as paying taxes. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/04/uncle_sam_wants_you_or_at_least_your_spare_change.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20... Also, the problem is that the government now has to plan its budget based on the new tax plan. Even if I donate a few thousand extra, that won't stop a lot of important programs from getting cut, and it won't stop general inequality from increasing.
  - ncallaway 9y ago
    You're correct that you don't donate to the IRS, specifically. You can write a check to the "United States Treasury", however. They will gladly cash your check.
- ncallaway 9y ago
  I have written checks to the United States Treasury in the past to better cover what I think my tax obligations _should_ be. I have absolutely no faith in the current governance of the federal government, so I'll probably put my savings into a high yield savings account or a low-risk investment vehicle. When I again agree with the direction of the federal government, I'll pay this insane tax break back United States Treasury.

quantdev 9y ago

Surprised to see such a big tax decrease (~14%) even though my wife and I live in Manhattan and our state and local taxes are about ~10% effective. The loss of the state and local deductions is more than made up for by the drop in the marginal rates, apparently. Now, if we had other deductions (e.g., student loan, mortgage interest and tax, medical, etc.), I suspect we'd lose out here. I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion on HN, so let me say I don't believe we deserve such a large tax cut, but I'm glad to see this plan is not incentivizing debt or artificially inflating home prices as much as the current one.

rottyguy 9y ago
this probably removes the AMT if you're making < 500k individual or 1M married, which, for us, was huge last year.
- maximlott 9y ago
  FYI that is a bit of an oversimplification. See the AMT page on TaxPlanCalculator.com/static/AMT.html to see if it really eliminates your AMT in that range.

rsync 9y ago

This does not take into account the changes to pass-through entities which I still don't fully understand ... When I say I don't fully understand them, what I mean is, it looks like they have changed pass-through entities into (effectively) negative pass through entities for up to 20% of before tax earnings ? And I think this is for "draw" or "dividend" income that you extract from the entity ? So it's like santa claus came and gave me an enormous gift that I never even dreamed of asking for ? There must be something I am missing here ...

ncallaway 9y ago
No, there's not. It's something I was discussing with an accountant when these tax proposals were first being discussed. The accountant _would not accept_ what I was describing as their proposed pass-through treatment of income because it would be _ludicrous_. Ultimately, though, that's what they did. I get a _huge_ tax break that I don't want and don't need, because we happened to structure our business as a partnership instead of an LLC.
- Justin_K 9y ago
  Use the tax break to pay for increased healthcare costs!
- coolso 9y ago
  I’ll take it off your hands! I just sent my name and address to you via PM, but let me know if you’d prefer to send through PayPal instead of a check.
  - ncallaway 9y ago
    No thanks! I'm going to put it into a savings account or low risk investment, and write a check to the US Treasury at a time when I have more faith in the federal government.
    - coolso 9y ago
      So... you do want the huge tax break then? Hopefully you'll consider donating at least some (perhaps even all) of that tax break money to a homeless shelter or a food bank, maybe an animal shelter as well, especially this time of the year. That would definitely make that money go much further than it would if you paid it in taxes or sent it to the Treasury, be it this year or 10 years from now.

notacoward 9y ago

According to this I'm saving quite a bit. This year. Next year, not so much. Year after that, even less. It's like if I offered you a job at a really nice starting salary, but decreasing over the next few years to even less than you make already. Apparently a lot of people are stupid enough to accept that deal, and the folks in DC are dishonest enough to offer it. That's even before we consider how things will look in ten more years, as the deficit interest piles up and everyone's earning power is less than it would have been with a healthier economy.

ideonexus 9y ago

I am very confused by "Current Tax System You'd save $0" part. This makes no sense and reeks of snakeoil. Then I looked up who created this calculator, and it's Maximm Lott, a writer for Fox News who's twitter retweets Republican talking points and is bending over backwards to sell this plan: https://twitter.com/maximlott?lang=en https://twitter.com/maximlott?lang=en This propaganda has no business on HN. If you want a tax plan calculator, use the NYT's.

coolso 9y ago
Was the irony in your last paragraph intentional?
lumberjack 9y ago
The NYT did seem to put more effort into it: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-calculator.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-ca... At least it looks nicer.
- byproxy 9y ago
  I quite like the no-frills approach of the originally posted calculator. It's kind of refreshing.
quantdev 9y ago
Who cares who created it? The calculation is laid out and unless you have an error to present, you're criticism is invalid. It looks correct to me and is obviously more featured than the NYTs calculator which only allows you to pick ranges and subsets.
- mrexroad 9y ago
  This one was off by a tremendous amount for me. From any user expectations POV, the NYT calculator didn’t allow as many inputs, which forced me to accept that it would be ballpark approximation at best. However, the visuals gave me a good idea of which variables (income, itemized deductions) would push me closer to seeing a decrease vs increase in my tax bill.

teilo 9y ago

The big unknown with this tax bill, is how the states will react. My adjusted gross income goes up substantially because of the elimination of the personal exemption, but my child tax credits offset this - but only at the federal level. However, at the state level (in Minnesota), I get no child tax credits. This means I suddenly have a 10% increase in my AGI (with no corresponding increase in gross income to show for it) that will suddenly be taxable at the state level, because state taxes are keyed off of federal AGI.