5 ms·

so I guess AMD compiled apps don't work? :P

microcolonel 9y ago
Yeah, AMD64 applications don't yet work on this, only Intel ones. I think the stuff for a standard AMD64 machine isn't quite yet out of patent.
- yuhong 9y ago
  The Intel patents for up to SSE2 should expire soon, and hopefully the AMD64 patents should be licenseable from AMD (if they are interested in that). I would not be surprised if this already emulates up to SSE2, given the likely release date and the fact that recent versions of MSVC already enable /arch:SSE2 by default.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    > I would not be surprised if this already emulates up to SSE2, given the likely release date. Yeah, even if they could be sued, they could settle for a couple years damages max, or quite possibly win, since they're doing DBT (no different from QEMU or loads of other x86 + SSE2 emulators).
    - beagle3 9y ago
      though it's worth remembering that QEMU developers do not have the deep pockets that MS has -- and it is the depth of the pockets, rather than the (alleged) violation that drives law suits and threats.
- e1ven 9y ago
  Somewhat amusingly, it provides one of the best reasons to continue to provide an x86 version of apps, rather than going 64-bit only.
- jimrandomh 9y ago
  I don't see any mention of x86_64/AMD64 in the article. I would expect a version of Windows which can't run x86_64 apps to result in a lot of nasty compatibility surprises--it's been awhile since developers had to support 32-bit-only hardware--so I'd expect Microsoft to support it if at all possible.
  - yuhong 9y ago
    On the other hand, this is mostly for legacy desktop apps, not server apps or the like.
  - niftich 9y ago
    You're right, the posted Anandtech article does not mention x86_64; however, other prior and recent coverage of this topic does confirm that x86_64 is not supported, such as this Ars Technica article [1] from the same day. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/hp-asus-announce-first-windows-10-arm-pcs-20-hour-battery-life-gigabit-lte/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/hp-asus-announce-fir...
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    I think most Windows applications which are truly 64-bit only are either too large to run on a machine like this, or likely to be rebuilt for AArch64. For the time being, I think IA-32 support is enough to tide them over, and it has the benefit of being thoroughly out of patent (except some fairly common extensions, like SSE2, which will expire soon).
  - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
    There's still a lot of Windows devices that run x86 Windows, and new devices still ship with it, mostly low-memory or low-disk-space devices. Thus apps need to support it.
  - mrpippy 9y ago
    There's no support for x86_64 binaries. Windows 10 is still available in 32-bit editions and almost all apps are still available for 32-bit, so I don't think this is a big issue. I assume any kernel drivers will need to be compiled for ARM64 though. This might not help corporate adoption--VPN client, 3rd party anti-virus/full disk encryption, etc. Also one thing that is x86-64 only is WSL, the Windows Subsystem for Linux.

Yeah, AMD64 applications don't yet work on this, only Intel ones. I think the stuff for a standard AMD64 machine isn't quite yet out of patent.

yuhong 9y ago
The Intel patents for up to SSE2 should expire soon, and hopefully the AMD64 patents should be licenseable from AMD (if they are interested in that). I would not be surprised if this already emulates up to SSE2, given the likely release date and the fact that recent versions of MSVC already enable /arch:SSE2 by default.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  > I would not be surprised if this already emulates up to SSE2, given the likely release date. Yeah, even if they could be sued, they could settle for a couple years damages max, or quite possibly win, since they're doing DBT (no different from QEMU or loads of other x86 + SSE2 emulators).
  - beagle3 9y ago
    though it's worth remembering that QEMU developers do not have the deep pockets that MS has -- and it is the depth of the pockets, rather than the (alleged) violation that drives law suits and threats.
e1ven 9y ago
Somewhat amusingly, it provides one of the best reasons to continue to provide an x86 version of apps, rather than going 64-bit only.
jimrandomh 9y ago
I don't see any mention of x86_64/AMD64 in the article. I would expect a version of Windows which can't run x86_64 apps to result in a lot of nasty compatibility surprises--it's been awhile since developers had to support 32-bit-only hardware--so I'd expect Microsoft to support it if at all possible.
- yuhong 9y ago
  On the other hand, this is mostly for legacy desktop apps, not server apps or the like.
- niftich 9y ago
  You're right, the posted Anandtech article does not mention x86_64; however, other prior and recent coverage of this topic does confirm that x86_64 is not supported, such as this Ars Technica article [1] from the same day. [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/hp-asus-announce-first-windows-10-arm-pcs-20-hour-battery-life-gigabit-lte/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/hp-asus-announce-fir...
- microcolonel 9y ago
  I think most Windows applications which are truly 64-bit only are either too large to run on a machine like this, or likely to be rebuilt for AArch64. For the time being, I think IA-32 support is enough to tide them over, and it has the benefit of being thoroughly out of patent (except some fairly common extensions, like SSE2, which will expire soon).
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  There's still a lot of Windows devices that run x86 Windows, and new devices still ship with it, mostly low-memory or low-disk-space devices. Thus apps need to support it.
- mrpippy 9y ago
  There's no support for x86_64 binaries. Windows 10 is still available in 32-bit editions and almost all apps are still available for 32-bit, so I don't think this is a big issue. I assume any kernel drivers will need to be compiled for ARM64 though. This might not help corporate adoption--VPN client, 3rd party anti-virus/full disk encryption, etc. Also one thing that is x86-64 only is WSL, the Windows Subsystem for Linux.