7 ms·

I donate to planned parenthood, I do back it up. I raise the point in internet discussion, I do back it up.

lovich 9y ago
Just to clarify, do you donate to planned parenthood cause you support people having a right to an abortion and/or access to other health services, or do you do it so that there are less undesirables in the world?
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  I don't support the right to an abortion, but I do support abortions. My motivation for donating to planned parenthood is altruistic - if the mother doesn't want the kid, society really doesn't want the kid and doesn't want the mom to have a kid. Society can't be more invested in the kid than their parents. Ideally we'd tie (reversible) sterilization with welfare participation but the horseshoe of fundies / progressives make that neigh impossible. And I don't support eugenics at all. I just think that the social contract should have an 'out' and there should be a place in the world where we can put the undesirables (a la Australia). This is why we need to colonize mars (and other planets). There should be enough societies that people can find one that works for them and that societies can isolate themselves from factions they don't want. Look around, liberalism is failing and doesn't offer a credible alternatives to tribal politics. The only way we can make tribal politics safe is to reduce friction in interactions which means more space.
  - lovich 9y ago
    How can you state that you don't support eugenics, but you want to take a set of people and put them in a more hostile environment. That is going to kill off people, in the set you defined, which is eugenics. Your idea about there being enough societies that people can find one that works for them has some merit, but I don't see how that fits with you choosing another group and moving them to an area with less resources. That's not people choosing a society that works for them, that's conquest and exile
    - alexanderstears 9y ago
      If you think taking away resources (which people are not entitled to) is tantamount to murder, then every regime that collects taxes is murderous. Your definition of 'killing people off' is asinine and lacks nuance. I'm not strong enough take your points seriously, so allow me to take them to absurd conclusions: Right now, you're taking oxygen out of the air and depositing CO2. Right now, people are dying from polluted air and lack of oxygen, are you responsible for their deaths?
      - lovich 9y ago
        I think there's a pretty good argument that if you create pollution you're responsible, at least in part, for people who die early because of it. I also think you could argue that taxing people, and providing no benefit in return, is murderous. That benefit part is important though, which I don't see your system providing by just removing people. But let's ignore all that for a moment and just say we go ahead with your system. Why are other groups moved to Australia, Mars, etc but you and whatever group you've decided you belong to get to stay where you are? What makes these other people move, because you asked? Paid? Forced? I am legitimately curious as to how your plan would work

Just to clarify, do you donate to planned parenthood cause you support people having a right to an abortion and/or access to other health services, or do you do it so that there are less undesirables in the world?

alexanderstears 9y ago
I don't support the right to an abortion, but I do support abortions. My motivation for donating to planned parenthood is altruistic - if the mother doesn't want the kid, society really doesn't want the kid and doesn't want the mom to have a kid. Society can't be more invested in the kid than their parents. Ideally we'd tie (reversible) sterilization with welfare participation but the horseshoe of fundies / progressives make that neigh impossible. And I don't support eugenics at all. I just think that the social contract should have an 'out' and there should be a place in the world where we can put the undesirables (a la Australia). This is why we need to colonize mars (and other planets). There should be enough societies that people can find one that works for them and that societies can isolate themselves from factions they don't want. Look around, liberalism is failing and doesn't offer a credible alternatives to tribal politics. The only way we can make tribal politics safe is to reduce friction in interactions which means more space.
- lovich 9y ago
  How can you state that you don't support eugenics, but you want to take a set of people and put them in a more hostile environment. That is going to kill off people, in the set you defined, which is eugenics. Your idea about there being enough societies that people can find one that works for them has some merit, but I don't see how that fits with you choosing another group and moving them to an area with less resources. That's not people choosing a society that works for them, that's conquest and exile
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    If you think taking away resources (which people are not entitled to) is tantamount to murder, then every regime that collects taxes is murderous. Your definition of 'killing people off' is asinine and lacks nuance. I'm not strong enough take your points seriously, so allow me to take them to absurd conclusions: Right now, you're taking oxygen out of the air and depositing CO2. Right now, people are dying from polluted air and lack of oxygen, are you responsible for their deaths?
    - lovich 9y ago
      I think there's a pretty good argument that if you create pollution you're responsible, at least in part, for people who die early because of it. I also think you could argue that taxing people, and providing no benefit in return, is murderous. That benefit part is important though, which I don't see your system providing by just removing people. But let's ignore all that for a moment and just say we go ahead with your system. Why are other groups moved to Australia, Mars, etc but you and whatever group you've decided you belong to get to stay where you are? What makes these other people move, because you asked? Paid? Forced? I am legitimately curious as to how your plan would work