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Sorry, I don't buy this whole "older workers more likely to see through bullshit" narrative that many presumably older folks on HN push. It sounds awfully like

by xux 9y ago

Sorry, I don't buy this whole "older workers more likely to see through bullshit" narrative that many presumably older folks on HN push. It sounds awfully like the arguments that traditionally nationalist groups use against immigrants, contending they're less intelligent and accept lower wages because they're culturally inferior and just don't know better Maybe it's just that younger workers legitimately provide better labor for lower cost. For a small startup, you really don't need someone with 30 years of experience, and it's better to spend your money on someone demanding a lower wage and will work fast.

mythrwy 9y ago
Maybe I don't understand but it sort of sounds like in the last sentence you validate what you don't buy in the first.
manigandham 9y ago
Cheap and fast can cost you more over the long run, a truth I've seen play out over dozens of companies that could've used the wisdom of someone who did it all before. There's a legitimate concern over age discrimination which you seem to have underscored with your comment that you "dont really need someone with 30 years of experience".
hamstercat 9y ago
From my point of view, seeing through bullshit is not about being intelligent, but rather having experience. After you have lived through different situations, some of them shitty, I believe you can get better at identifying them from the get-go. I'm not old myself, but I definitely understand things now that would simply go over my head when I started out. There's no silver bullet of course, but usually a company should strive to have a mix of both experienced and less experienced workers. Less experienced workers cost less and will be more willing to "deal with bullshit", but more experienced workers bring knowledge with them that can prove invaluable to a company. They've lived through different situations, and they've seen success and failures. Finding the good balance depends of each company's situation of course.
georgeburdell 9y ago
It sounds awfully like the arguments that traditionally nationalist groups use against immigrants, contending they're less intelligent and accept lower wages because they're culturally inferior and just don't know better Is this the new Godwin's Law?
- xux 9y ago
  Perhaps you can offer a rebuttal to my arguments instead of doing an implicit name-calling? Immigrants do work harder and offer cheaper labor, not unlike the example of younger developers vs older developers. Companies can feel free to make the trade off
  - manigandham 9y ago
    Big difference in unskilled vs skilled labor. Knowledge workers do better when they are more educated and experienced, something that there is no shortcut for. But you don't have to take it from me: https://twitter.com/werner/status/867323121019351041 https://twitter.com/werner/status/867323121019351041

by xux 9y ago

mythrwy 9y ago

Maybe I don't understand but it sort of sounds like in the last sentence you validate what you don't buy in the first.

manigandham 9y ago

Cheap and fast can cost you more over the long run, a truth I've seen play out over dozens of companies that could've used the wisdom of someone who did it all before. There's a legitimate concern over age discrimination which you seem to have underscored with your comment that you "dont really need someone with 30 years of experience".

hamstercat 9y ago

From my point of view, seeing through bullshit is not about being intelligent, but rather having experience. After you have lived through different situations, some of them shitty, I believe you can get better at identifying them from the get-go. I'm not old myself, but I definitely understand things now that would simply go over my head when I started out. There's no silver bullet of course, but usually a company should strive to have a mix of both experienced and less experienced workers. Less experienced workers cost less and will be more willing to "deal with bullshit", but more experienced workers bring knowledge with them that can prove invaluable to a company. They've lived through different situations, and they've seen success and failures. Finding the good balance depends of each company's situation of course.

georgeburdell 9y ago

It sounds awfully like the arguments that traditionally nationalist groups use against immigrants, contending they're less intelligent and accept lower wages because they're culturally inferior and just don't know better Is this the new Godwin's Law?

xux 9y ago
Perhaps you can offer a rebuttal to my arguments instead of doing an implicit name-calling? Immigrants do work harder and offer cheaper labor, not unlike the example of younger developers vs older developers. Companies can feel free to make the trade off
- manigandham 9y ago
  Big difference in unskilled vs skilled labor. Knowledge workers do better when they are more educated and experienced, something that there is no shortcut for. But you don't have to take it from me: https://twitter.com/werner/status/867323121019351041 https://twitter.com/werner/status/867323121019351041