9 ms·

I think the use cases you're describing are quite distinct from a "Linux on the desktop" user. The audio experience for this kind of user (myself included) has

I think the use cases you're describing are quite distinct from a "Linux on the desktop" user. The audio experience for this kind of user (myself included) has improved dramatically in the past few years.

bandrami 9y ago
I'm a desktop Linux user; I preferred the old way. I do get that most people like multiplexing (I don't; I want exactly one sound source at a given time), and I'll grant that has improved. I banged my head against my desk for a couple of days when Slackware switched to Pulse with 14.2, allegedly because it was needed for bluetooth. I still have difficulty believing that people actually use bluetooth for audio, but apparently some people love it.
- kbenson 9y ago
  > I don't; I want exactly one sound source at a given time Really? So you want all app feedback to cease if you're playing music? No IM or new email notifications? That just seems like a pain to me.
  - bandrami 9y ago
    I hate app feedback and notification sounds. I hate notifications in general; I prefer to poll for information I need on my schedule. This is also why I hate desktop environments and use a simple full screen window manager. One task at a time. Hell, lately I don't even bring up X every day if I don't need to. Tl;dr: I'm old.
    - rhaps0dy 9y ago
      Or wise, and you take control of your own attention. Multiplexing can be handy if you like gaming, and having music from another application at the same time. Also sometimes it's useful to have a reference manual in one side of the screen and your text editor in the other, or a PDF viewer on one side and a LaTeX editor in the other.
      - zeveb 9y ago
        I'm with you regarding the value of multiplexing. I don't use it much, but it was really annoying back in the day when one program would block another program's sound. > Also sometimes it's useful to have a reference manual in one side of the screen and your text editor in the other, or a PDF viewer on one side and a LaTeX editor in the other. True. An emacs which supported the framebuffer could do this (but GNU emacs currently only supports vt100, X, macOS & Windows, IIRC).
        bandrami 9y ago
        There are some framebuffer[1] consoles[2] that work really well when you do need to mux outside of X. [1] https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/kmscon/ https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/kmscon/ [2] https://code.google.com/archive/p/fbterm/ https://code.google.com/archive/p/fbterm/
    - dvtv75 9y ago
      There's nothing quite as jarring as having a pleasant piece of music turned up, only to have some off-key and out-of-time bell ding because an email arrived. Want to let me know there's a new email? Put a little envelope on the task bar so I can see it. Don't invade my music!
- adambyrtek 9y ago
  > I still have difficulty believing that people actually use bluetooth for audio So you don't believe that somebody would like to be able to use wireless headphones?
  - zeveb 9y ago
    I don't: wireless headphones seem strictly worse in every way than wired. They require batteries and charging; they introduce lag; they are expensive; they are easier to lose; they don't have a convenient cable to hang on to. I am completely and totally flabbergasted by their popularity. It's as though millions of people were turning their noses up at fine, free homemade French food and paying for McDonald's instead.
    - hamax 9y ago
      > seem strictly worse in every way than wired. The same as wifi, right? Strictly worse in every way. Except for the not needing wires way.
      - zeveb 9y ago
        As a matter of fact, my desktop & my laptop are both wired, and I hate how flaky WiFi is on my phone & tablet. Just moving to different rooms in my (small house) does horrible things to my network connexion speed — but Ethernet keeps on chugging along.
      - bandrami 9y ago
        Wifi has encryption. Bluetooth means I'm broadcasting my audio stream to anybody who feels like snooping on me.
        digi_owl 9y ago
        Not quite. Bluetooth was originally encrypted, but gained the option of non-encrypted channels with version 1.1. On top of that Bluetooth use frequency hopping. Until recently there was no real hardware for scanning/sniffing Bluetooth traffic, at least not anything easily available compared to a wifi card in promiscuous mode.
- khedoros1 9y ago
  > allegedly because it was needed for bluetooth The bluetooth stack dropped support for ALSA with Bluez 5.0. About a year ago, dev started on a "bluez-alsa" or BlueALSA package the re-integrates an ALSA backend. I've used it briefly; it seems to work as advertised. I think that Bluez 5.0 came out about the time that Slackware 14.0 did, so it makes some sense that versions before 14.2 would've provided Bluez 4.x for the bluetooth stack.
loeg 9y ago
Well, it improved years ago (like, ten!) and I haven't had to worry about it in recent years. I still remember buying a hardware sound card (soundblaster emu10k) to enable ALSA to mix multiple sources (game audio + teamspeak or whatever voice chat people used back then) back in the early 2000s.

bandrami 9y ago

I'm a desktop Linux user; I preferred the old way. I do get that most people like multiplexing (I don't; I want exactly one sound source at a given time), and I'll grant that has improved. I banged my head against my desk for a couple of days when Slackware switched to Pulse with 14.2, allegedly because it was needed for bluetooth. I still have difficulty believing that people actually use bluetooth for audio, but apparently some people love it.

kbenson 9y ago
> I don't; I want exactly one sound source at a given time Really? So you want all app feedback to cease if you're playing music? No IM or new email notifications? That just seems like a pain to me.
- bandrami 9y ago
  I hate app feedback and notification sounds. I hate notifications in general; I prefer to poll for information I need on my schedule. This is also why I hate desktop environments and use a simple full screen window manager. One task at a time. Hell, lately I don't even bring up X every day if I don't need to. Tl;dr: I'm old.
  - rhaps0dy 9y ago
    Or wise, and you take control of your own attention. Multiplexing can be handy if you like gaming, and having music from another application at the same time. Also sometimes it's useful to have a reference manual in one side of the screen and your text editor in the other, or a PDF viewer on one side and a LaTeX editor in the other.
    - zeveb 9y ago
      I'm with you regarding the value of multiplexing. I don't use it much, but it was really annoying back in the day when one program would block another program's sound. > Also sometimes it's useful to have a reference manual in one side of the screen and your text editor in the other, or a PDF viewer on one side and a LaTeX editor in the other. True. An emacs which supported the framebuffer could do this (but GNU emacs currently only supports vt100, X, macOS & Windows, IIRC).
      - bandrami 9y ago
        There are some framebuffer[1] consoles[2] that work really well when you do need to mux outside of X. [1] https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/kmscon/ https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/kmscon/ [2] https://code.google.com/archive/p/fbterm/ https://code.google.com/archive/p/fbterm/
  - dvtv75 9y ago
    There's nothing quite as jarring as having a pleasant piece of music turned up, only to have some off-key and out-of-time bell ding because an email arrived. Want to let me know there's a new email? Put a little envelope on the task bar so I can see it. Don't invade my music!
adambyrtek 9y ago
> I still have difficulty believing that people actually use bluetooth for audio So you don't believe that somebody would like to be able to use wireless headphones?
- zeveb 9y ago
  I don't: wireless headphones seem strictly worse in every way than wired. They require batteries and charging; they introduce lag; they are expensive; they are easier to lose; they don't have a convenient cable to hang on to. I am completely and totally flabbergasted by their popularity. It's as though millions of people were turning their noses up at fine, free homemade French food and paying for McDonald's instead.
  - hamax 9y ago
    > seem strictly worse in every way than wired. The same as wifi, right? Strictly worse in every way. Except for the not needing wires way.
    - zeveb 9y ago
      As a matter of fact, my desktop & my laptop are both wired, and I hate how flaky WiFi is on my phone & tablet. Just moving to different rooms in my (small house) does horrible things to my network connexion speed — but Ethernet keeps on chugging along.
    - bandrami 9y ago
      Wifi has encryption. Bluetooth means I'm broadcasting my audio stream to anybody who feels like snooping on me.
      - digi_owl 9y ago
        Not quite. Bluetooth was originally encrypted, but gained the option of non-encrypted channels with version 1.1. On top of that Bluetooth use frequency hopping. Until recently there was no real hardware for scanning/sniffing Bluetooth traffic, at least not anything easily available compared to a wifi card in promiscuous mode.
khedoros1 9y ago
> allegedly because it was needed for bluetooth The bluetooth stack dropped support for ALSA with Bluez 5.0. About a year ago, dev started on a "bluez-alsa" or BlueALSA package the re-integrates an ALSA backend. I've used it briefly; it seems to work as advertised. I think that Bluez 5.0 came out about the time that Slackware 14.0 did, so it makes some sense that versions before 14.2 would've provided Bluez 4.x for the bluetooth stack.

loeg 9y ago

Well, it improved years ago (like, ten!) and I haven't had to worry about it in recent years. I still remember buying a hardware sound card (soundblaster emu10k) to enable ALSA to mix multiple sources (game audio + teamspeak or whatever voice chat people used back then) back in the early 2000s.