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I guess this announcement from VW got fast-tracked now that China is about to announce a ban on gas-powered vehicles China, in turn probably wants to go forward

I guess this announcement from VW got fast-tracked now that China is about to announce a ban on gas-powered vehicles China, in turn probably wants to go forward with that not for environmental reasons, but because they have a near monopoly on the world's supply of rare earths (which the electric vehicle's batteries require)

chrisb 9y ago
This is factually wrong; rare earth elements are not required for batteries. Rare earth elements are cerium (Ce), dysprosium (Dy), erbium (Er), europium (Eu), gadolinium (Gd), holmium (Ho), lanthanum (La), lutetium (Lu), neodymium (Nd), praseodymium (Pr), promethium (Pm), samarium (Sm), scandium (Sc), terbium (Tb), thulium (Tm), ytterbium (Yb) and yttrium (Y) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element) Lithium batteries generally require elements such as: Lithium, graphite (carbon), Nickel, Cobalt, Manganese, Aluminium, Oxygen. None of these are rare earth minerals, and production of most of these elements is not concentrated in China. See https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla-batteries-possible-bottleneck/ https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla... The powerful permanent magnets used in some EVs do require rare earth elements (e.g. neodymium), but many EV motors don't require permanent magnets at all. E.g. Tesla uses an induction motor (no permanent magnet required); whereas the Nissan Leaf does use permanent magnets (assuming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle#Electric_motor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle#Electric_moto... is correct).
- rawfan 9y ago
  Most of the Cobalt reserves are concentrated in Kongo, though.
  - igravious 9y ago
    There are two Congos. These are in the Democratic Republic of Congo(-Kinshasa), not the Republic of Congo(-Brazzaville), yes? https://www.statista.com/statistics/264930/global-cobalt-reserves/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/264930/global-cobalt-res... The Congo appears to have as much reserves as the rest of the world combined! If demand goes up prospecting will go up.
- cconcepts 9y ago
  This comment is a great example of why one should triple check anything they intend to post to HN.
  - csours 9y ago
    https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law Cunningham's Law states "the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."
    - sitkack 9y ago
      This is true in general for humans, the best way to start a design discussion is, "I propose that we do X to solve Y!" rather than, what are some solutions to problem Y? People are much better at correcting than creating from a blank page.
- lonk 9y ago
  Also Ethereum (ETH)
andygates 9y ago
"not for environmental reasons" vs truly horrible urban smog and grumpy, wheezy citizens. Hmm.

chrisb 9y ago

This is factually wrong; rare earth elements are not required for batteries. Rare earth elements are cerium (Ce), dysprosium (Dy), erbium (Er), europium (Eu), gadolinium (Gd), holmium (Ho), lanthanum (La), lutetium (Lu), neodymium (Nd), praseodymium (Pr), promethium (Pm), samarium (Sm), scandium (Sc), terbium (Tb), thulium (Tm), ytterbium (Yb) and yttrium (Y) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element) Lithium batteries generally require elements such as: Lithium, graphite (carbon), Nickel, Cobalt, Manganese, Aluminium, Oxygen. None of these are rare earth minerals, and production of most of these elements is not concentrated in China. See https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla-batteries-possible-bottleneck/ https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla... The powerful permanent magnets used in some EVs do require rare earth elements (e.g. neodymium), but many EV motors don't require permanent magnets at all. E.g. Tesla uses an induction motor (no permanent magnet required); whereas the Nissan Leaf does use permanent magnets (assuming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle#Electric_motor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle#Electric_moto... is correct).

rawfan 9y ago
Most of the Cobalt reserves are concentrated in Kongo, though.
- igravious 9y ago
  There are two Congos. These are in the Democratic Republic of Congo(-Kinshasa), not the Republic of Congo(-Brazzaville), yes? https://www.statista.com/statistics/264930/global-cobalt-reserves/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/264930/global-cobalt-res... The Congo appears to have as much reserves as the rest of the world combined! If demand goes up prospecting will go up.
cconcepts 9y ago
This comment is a great example of why one should triple check anything they intend to post to HN.
- csours 9y ago
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law Cunningham's Law states "the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."
  - sitkack 9y ago
    This is true in general for humans, the best way to start a design discussion is, "I propose that we do X to solve Y!" rather than, what are some solutions to problem Y? People are much better at correcting than creating from a blank page.
lonk 9y ago
Also Ethereum (ETH)

andygates 9y ago

"not for environmental reasons" vs truly horrible urban smog and grumpy, wheezy citizens. Hmm.