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Article doesn't really highlight the environmental hooliganism practiced by these guys. They rip up a meadow in a national forest, or on BLM land, and they irri

Article doesn't really highlight the environmental hooliganism practiced by these guys. They rip up a meadow in a national forest, or on BLM land, and they irrigate like crazy people, eroding everything rapidly, and they drive up and down the mountainside in their giant pickups. When they are done they leave everything including their trash and their toilets. When ordinary people go motorcycling in these public lands the growers chase them, shoot at them, and set booby traps. The whole thing is a public menace. I think with legalization should come some kind of harsh regime for these pirates. Ruining public lands should be a serious felony.

bigzen 9y ago
Do you have further reading on these events? I agree with you 100% but I would argue that these growers are probably some of the lesser evils facing our public lands.
- jameskegel 9y ago
  I'd rather run across an old composting toilet while biking than an old meth lab, so you have a point
- harlanlewis 9y ago
  You might be surprised by the scale. I know a few folks doing water management in California, and they've all independently brought up the exacerbating effects of unmonitored but significant water usage by illegal farms during the last few years of drought. Don't have a link handy, though.
- the_evacuator 9y ago
  Search for "trespass grow" to find a lot of magazine articles and videos on the subject. I may shake my head at clear-cutting and overgrazing but I'll say that I've never been chased off public land by a rancher nor fired upon by lumberjacks. The marijuana growers are ... unique.
- jmspring 9y ago
  Pretty common occurrence - http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1AM0C3 http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1AM0C3
- Theodores 9y ago
  As a cyclist I shudder at the thought of motorcyclists ruining the trails, making noise and generally trashing the place. My hill walking dad curses the mountain bikers and their damage to the terrain - leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but memories.
  - the_evacuator 9y ago
    I hear you. The thing about a national forest is there are already roads, and already the sounds of logging. These are working lands. We set aside wilderness areas without roads, that are not even welcoming to horses, for those seeking peace. Enjoy your lands.
icantdrive55 9y ago
I had a botany teacher take grip after grip from students over the evils of people who walk off designated trails, and even the evil vechicles that go off trail. He queity said a few times, the weeds/plants that survive just might be/are the ones with better genes? "So going off trails is not the worst thing in the world. Allowing hundreds of vechicles to decimate a meadow is not what I'm advocating though." He said, we should be more concerned over Monsanto's eventual complete control over the food supply. (This was before most colleges even knew about Monsanto.) I'm more concerned over the rain forests being decimated, for essentially hamburgers, than the damage I have seen from illegial grows. I'm not in a bad mood now. Good night.
Clubber 9y ago
We have too many things that are felonies. A proper punishment would be to clean up all their mess and pay a fine. "Should be a serious felony," is how we got into the police state we are approaching. Just because it's emotionally distasteful to uglify nature doesn't mean it warrants years in prison, never being able to work again, and never being able to vote again.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kec 9y ago
  Some things can't be easily fixed. It can take years or even decades to restore damaged wilderness to something approaching its natural state.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Yes, I mean if it is something like toxic waste like Love Canal, that's one thing, but if it's dumping trash, that's easily remedied. Also, once the trash is removed, nature will typically revert to it's natural state all by itself. Humankind has to actively prevent nature from engulfing cities. But to say, "they left trash everywhere, FELONY!" is a seriously emotional reaction. Criminal justice should be a rational not emotional thing. Is dumping trash the same thing as rape, robbery or murder? Certainly not. Felonies should be reserved for the harshest crimes against people, not littering or ingesting things. The US has more people incarcerated, not only per capita, but as a total number than any other country in the developed world. This includes China. That statistic shows a serious, systemic problem with our justice system. http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-population-total?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-popula... The American prison system is massive. So massive that its estimated turnover of $74 billion eclipses the GDP of 133 nations. https://smartasset.com/mortgage/the-economics-of-the-american-prison-system https://smartasset.com/mortgage/the-economics-of-the-america...
    - briandear 9y ago
pstuart 9y ago
With legalization comes the ability to use existing agricultural land without fear, effectively rendering this point moot.

bigzen 9y ago

Do you have further reading on these events? I agree with you 100% but I would argue that these growers are probably some of the lesser evils facing our public lands.

jameskegel 9y ago
I'd rather run across an old composting toilet while biking than an old meth lab, so you have a point
harlanlewis 9y ago
You might be surprised by the scale. I know a few folks doing water management in California, and they've all independently brought up the exacerbating effects of unmonitored but significant water usage by illegal farms during the last few years of drought. Don't have a link handy, though.
the_evacuator 9y ago
Search for "trespass grow" to find a lot of magazine articles and videos on the subject. I may shake my head at clear-cutting and overgrazing but I'll say that I've never been chased off public land by a rancher nor fired upon by lumberjacks. The marijuana growers are ... unique.
jmspring 9y ago
Pretty common occurrence - http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1AM0C3 http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1AM0C3
Theodores 9y ago
As a cyclist I shudder at the thought of motorcyclists ruining the trails, making noise and generally trashing the place. My hill walking dad curses the mountain bikers and their damage to the terrain - leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but memories.
- the_evacuator 9y ago
  I hear you. The thing about a national forest is there are already roads, and already the sounds of logging. These are working lands. We set aside wilderness areas without roads, that are not even welcoming to horses, for those seeking peace. Enjoy your lands.

icantdrive55 9y ago

I had a botany teacher take grip after grip from students over the evils of people who walk off designated trails, and even the evil vechicles that go off trail. He queity said a few times, the weeds/plants that survive just might be/are the ones with better genes? "So going off trails is not the worst thing in the world. Allowing hundreds of vechicles to decimate a meadow is not what I'm advocating though." He said, we should be more concerned over Monsanto's eventual complete control over the food supply. (This was before most colleges even knew about Monsanto.) I'm more concerned over the rain forests being decimated, for essentially hamburgers, than the damage I have seen from illegial grows. I'm not in a bad mood now. Good night.

Clubber 9y ago

We have too many things that are felonies. A proper punishment would be to clean up all their mess and pay a fine. "Should be a serious felony," is how we got into the police state we are approaching. Just because it's emotionally distasteful to uglify nature doesn't mean it warrants years in prison, never being able to work again, and never being able to vote again.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kec 9y ago
Some things can't be easily fixed. It can take years or even decades to restore damaged wilderness to something approaching its natural state.
- Clubber 9y ago
  Yes, I mean if it is something like toxic waste like Love Canal, that's one thing, but if it's dumping trash, that's easily remedied. Also, once the trash is removed, nature will typically revert to it's natural state all by itself. Humankind has to actively prevent nature from engulfing cities. But to say, "they left trash everywhere, FELONY!" is a seriously emotional reaction. Criminal justice should be a rational not emotional thing. Is dumping trash the same thing as rape, robbery or murder? Certainly not. Felonies should be reserved for the harshest crimes against people, not littering or ingesting things. The US has more people incarcerated, not only per capita, but as a total number than any other country in the developed world. This includes China. That statistic shows a serious, systemic problem with our justice system. http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-population-total?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-popula... The American prison system is massive. So massive that its estimated turnover of $74 billion eclipses the GDP of 133 nations. https://smartasset.com/mortgage/the-economics-of-the-american-prison-system https://smartasset.com/mortgage/the-economics-of-the-america...
  - briandear 9y ago

pstuart 9y ago

With legalization comes the ability to use existing agricultural land without fear, effectively rendering this point moot.