6 ms·

a small slice of pie is better than all of a non-existent pie because the pie relocated to another state or country

nobodyorother 9y ago
With the 3BN tax-dollar giveaway, Wisconsin will not receive any positive pie returns from Foxconn until 2043. Assuming Foxconn doesn't move on to another location in 2042. It's worth pointing out that Wisconsin is giving billions to a company where working conditions so bad that workers have been killing themselves there since 2010: "It wouldn’t be Foxconn without people dying."
- derping69 9y ago
  blame china for not having any worker's rights or pollution regulations. Makes it pretty easy to make cheap stuff. I'm guessing advances in robotics now make it cheaper to make it here instead of shipping it from China to the US. It will be interesting to watch to breakdown in China as tens of millions of angry citizens lose their jobs to automation. Combined with the demographic abomination they created with their 1 child policy I predict China will collapse eventually. Also it's not a straight tax giveaway upfront, they have to hit incentives over time.
  - thaumasiotes 9y ago
    > the demographic abomination they created with their 1 child policy You mean the male surplus? Compare the Chinese fertility rate, currently estimated at an abysmally low 1.6 children per woman, with the fertility rate in anything-goes Japan, at 1.4.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > It's worth pointing out that Wisconsin is giving billions to a company where working conditions so bad that workers have been killing themselves there since 2010 Suicide is very common. Pick any large company and you'll find similar rates of death by suicide.
  - vacri 9y ago
    I pick Apple's California campuses. Now, where are the people flinging themselves off company buildings there? This apologism misses the fact that the Foxconn suicide statistics are about suicide attempts on company grounds reported to the company. Most suicide attempts aren't known to the company - if someone dies outside the company, it's not necessarily known to the company or counted as part of the aggregate statistics. I've known two people attempt suicide, and neither of them let their workplace know. Similarly, a friend of a friend committed suicide by flinging himself from a hospital roof - do you really think his company would count his death as being due to their workplace? Of course not, what company would ever tie a suicide to themselves if they could avoid it, regardless of whether they contributed to it. In short, your argument makes the false assumption that the people killing themselves at their workplace are the only suicides in that demographic.
    - nupertino 9y ago
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3561995/Police-investigating-possible-suicide-Apple-s-headquarters.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3561995/Police-inves... Although I don’t know what this does to your statistics; Foxconn employed and houses 2x magnitude more workers vs the apple campus (which houses none)
bsder 9y ago
Not necessarily. Increasing research into these "tax incentive" schemes shows that most of the time the jurisdictions in question would be better off without the plant. The big recent change is that measurements and penalties are starting to get written into these agreements. When you have to go that far, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

With the 3BN tax-dollar giveaway, Wisconsin will not receive any positive pie returns from Foxconn until 2043. Assuming Foxconn doesn't move on to another location in 2042. It's worth pointing out that Wisconsin is giving billions to a company where working conditions so bad that workers have been killing themselves there since 2010: "It wouldn’t be Foxconn without people dying."

derping69 9y ago
blame china for not having any worker's rights or pollution regulations. Makes it pretty easy to make cheap stuff. I'm guessing advances in robotics now make it cheaper to make it here instead of shipping it from China to the US. It will be interesting to watch to breakdown in China as tens of millions of angry citizens lose their jobs to automation. Combined with the demographic abomination they created with their 1 child policy I predict China will collapse eventually. Also it's not a straight tax giveaway upfront, they have to hit incentives over time.
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  > the demographic abomination they created with their 1 child policy You mean the male surplus? Compare the Chinese fertility rate, currently estimated at an abysmally low 1.6 children per woman, with the fertility rate in anything-goes Japan, at 1.4.
DanBC 9y ago
> It's worth pointing out that Wisconsin is giving billions to a company where working conditions so bad that workers have been killing themselves there since 2010 Suicide is very common. Pick any large company and you'll find similar rates of death by suicide.
- vacri 9y ago
  I pick Apple's California campuses. Now, where are the people flinging themselves off company buildings there? This apologism misses the fact that the Foxconn suicide statistics are about suicide attempts on company grounds reported to the company. Most suicide attempts aren't known to the company - if someone dies outside the company, it's not necessarily known to the company or counted as part of the aggregate statistics. I've known two people attempt suicide, and neither of them let their workplace know. Similarly, a friend of a friend committed suicide by flinging himself from a hospital roof - do you really think his company would count his death as being due to their workplace? Of course not, what company would ever tie a suicide to themselves if they could avoid it, regardless of whether they contributed to it. In short, your argument makes the false assumption that the people killing themselves at their workplace are the only suicides in that demographic.
  - nupertino 9y ago
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3561995/Police-investigating-possible-suicide-Apple-s-headquarters.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3561995/Police-inves... Although I don’t know what this does to your statistics; Foxconn employed and houses 2x magnitude more workers vs the apple campus (which houses none)

bsder 9y ago

Not necessarily. Increasing research into these "tax incentive" schemes shows that most of the time the jurisdictions in question would be better off without the plant. The big recent change is that measurements and penalties are starting to get written into these agreements. When you have to go that far, you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place.