6 ms·

> Being poor is 2 nights in jail because of a clerical error Tell us more

by fixxer 9y ago

jachee 9y ago
Speed trap as fund-raiser > clerical error lost paid ticket > license suspended > road block as fund-raiser > zero-tolerance "suspended license == go to jail" > impounded car, $1200 bond, and jail time "waiting on the judge to post bond."
- camgunz 9y ago
  This is way more common than people realize. Simple traffic violations spiral out of control for a lot of lower income people and they end up with felonies. It's a huge criminal justice issue.
  - agumonkey 9y ago
    Reminds me of an article about a girl receiving fines from a girl with similar name. Turns out the other one received fines too. It's big mess.
- mikekchar 9y ago
  Man, virtually the exact same thing happened to me: forgot to renew my license plate; got a ticket; paid the ticket; clerical error lost paid ticket; license suspended; suspension notice was never delivered (postal strike); got pulled over (suspended license puts your license plate on the "must stop" list); went to court. The key is what happens next. As an employed software engineer with no priors, I could negotiate. There are many things they can charge you with and it is completely at their whim which one you will get. I apologised profusely in my nice suit and walked away with a (small for me) fine. Other people in virtually the same situation got nailed to the wall. You didn't want to be one of those people arguing how unfair it was to be pulled in to court when you never got a suspension notice. Of course, they suspended my license again without telling me. Got the notice a month(!) later. I gave up driving after that. Since then I've driven a car maybe 4 times in the last 12 years.
- Grustaf 9y ago
  Speeding is always illegal, and not just for poor people. So is driving without a license. Do you believe those laws are unjust and/or targeting poor people?
  - arethuza 9y ago
    "clerical error lost paid ticket" Sounds like they paid their fine and then got caught in the system as the result of a clerical error?
    - Grustaf 9y ago
      Yes, and that is unfortunate, but it was preceded, and followed, by breaking the law.
      - arethuza 9y ago
        It's not "unfortunate" it's an example of how a clerical error that would be an inconvenience somewhere where public transport is good or if you have enough money to pay for taxis becomes nearly catastrophic if you are poor. He made a mistake, paid his fine and that should have been that.
        jachee 9y ago
        > He made a mistake, paid his fine and that should have been that. Exactly. It's not like I even made a choice to drive with a suspended license. This was nearly 20 years ago now, and it happened in a tiny no-red-light town with no computer system. The ticket was for 61 in a 55 on a downhill grade. The dead-tree paperwork that confirmed that I had paid got lost, they had the wrong address on file, and I never found out my license was suspended. Cut to 2 years later and a different blink-and-you-miss it town that happens to be on a border bottleneck is running their weekly roadblock while I happen to pass through, and next thing I know it's "Step out of the car and put your hands behind your back."
        9y ago
ubernostrum 9y ago
Over in Alameda County, within sight of the Silicon Valley unicorns, people have been incorrectly arrested, jailed, and even ordered to register as sex offenders because of software used by the courts: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/12/court-software-glitches-result-in-erroneous-arrests-defense-lawyers-say/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/12/court-software-g... This is "move fast and break things" taken to its ultimate logical conclusion.
JBlue42 9y ago
Didn't go to jail but I did have a warrant out for my arrest because the community service officer didn't turn in my paperwork. $200 down the drain plus having to lose a half a day of work, drive to another city (30 min) as well deal with a crying parent on the phone that I hadn't told about what had happened (because it was so dumb - setting off fireworks). Going through it all, since it ended ok, was good. I was 20 and learned even more to 1) not trust cops, 2) the courts are fallible and 3) it's more f-cked up for other people than a white kid in college (which I was but sat through a lot of other cases that day and the previous time there).

> Being poor is 2 nights in jail because of a clerical error Tell us more

by fixxer 9y ago

> Being poor is 2 nights in jail because of a clerical error Tell us more

Speed trap as fund-raiser > clerical error lost paid ticket > license suspended > road block as fund-raiser > zero-tolerance "suspended license == go to jail" > impounded car, $1200 bond, and jail time "waiting on the judge to post bond."

camgunz 9y ago
This is way more common than people realize. Simple traffic violations spiral out of control for a lot of lower income people and they end up with felonies. It's a huge criminal justice issue.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  Reminds me of an article about a girl receiving fines from a girl with similar name. Turns out the other one received fines too. It's big mess.
mikekchar 9y ago
Man, virtually the exact same thing happened to me: forgot to renew my license plate; got a ticket; paid the ticket; clerical error lost paid ticket; license suspended; suspension notice was never delivered (postal strike); got pulled over (suspended license puts your license plate on the "must stop" list); went to court. The key is what happens next. As an employed software engineer with no priors, I could negotiate. There are many things they can charge you with and it is completely at their whim which one you will get. I apologised profusely in my nice suit and walked away with a (small for me) fine. Other people in virtually the same situation got nailed to the wall. You didn't want to be one of those people arguing how unfair it was to be pulled in to court when you never got a suspension notice. Of course, they suspended my license again without telling me. Got the notice a month(!) later. I gave up driving after that. Since then I've driven a car maybe 4 times in the last 12 years.
Grustaf 9y ago
Speeding is always illegal, and not just for poor people. So is driving without a license. Do you believe those laws are unjust and/or targeting poor people?
- arethuza 9y ago
  "clerical error lost paid ticket" Sounds like they paid their fine and then got caught in the system as the result of a clerical error?
  - Grustaf 9y ago
    Yes, and that is unfortunate, but it was preceded, and followed, by breaking the law.
    - arethuza 9y ago
      It's not "unfortunate" it's an example of how a clerical error that would be an inconvenience somewhere where public transport is good or if you have enough money to pay for taxis becomes nearly catastrophic if you are poor. He made a mistake, paid his fine and that should have been that.
      - jachee 9y ago
        > He made a mistake, paid his fine and that should have been that. Exactly. It's not like I even made a choice to drive with a suspended license. This was nearly 20 years ago now, and it happened in a tiny no-red-light town with no computer system. The ticket was for 61 in a 55 on a downhill grade. The dead-tree paperwork that confirmed that I had paid got lost, they had the wrong address on file, and I never found out my license was suspended. Cut to 2 years later and a different blink-and-you-miss it town that happens to be on a border bottleneck is running their weekly roadblock while I happen to pass through, and next thing I know it's "Step out of the car and put your hands behind your back."
        9y ago

ubernostrum 9y ago

Over in Alameda County, within sight of the Silicon Valley unicorns, people have been incorrectly arrested, jailed, and even ordered to register as sex offenders because of software used by the courts: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/12/court-software-glitches-result-in-erroneous-arrests-defense-lawyers-say/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/12/court-software-g... This is "move fast and break things" taken to its ultimate logical conclusion.

JBlue42 9y ago

Didn't go to jail but I did have a warrant out for my arrest because the community service officer didn't turn in my paperwork. $200 down the drain plus having to lose a half a day of work, drive to another city (30 min) as well deal with a crying parent on the phone that I hadn't told about what had happened (because it was so dumb - setting off fireworks). Going through it all, since it ended ok, was good. I was 20 and learned even more to 1) not trust cops, 2) the courts are fallible and 3) it's more f-cked up for other people than a white kid in college (which I was but sat through a lot of other cases that day and the previous time there).