8 ms·

Political affiliation is a protected class. I don't really know what the word "Nazi" means these days because people have used it to label everyone from far-rig

Political affiliation is a protected class. I don't really know what the word "Nazi" means these days because people have used it to label everyone from far-right conservatives to Trump voters to people who self-identify as neo-Nazis. Unless a person registered with the NSDAP prior to 1945, technically they are not a Nazi.

ubernostrum 9y ago
The folks in question seem to eagerly and happily apply the word "Nazi" to themselves and embrace the so-called ideals of the German Third Reich. So if you'd like to nitpick over the semantics of "Nazi" versus "adherent of a Nazi-Party-of-Germany-inspired philosophy", be my guest. But I'll be busy opposing them with my every breath, because that's what we do to Nazis.
KirinDave 9y ago
> I don't really know what the word "Nazi" means these days because people have used it to label everyone from far-right conservatives to Trump voters to people who self-identify as neo-Nazis. This coyness about the dilution of meaning is utterly irrelevant here. We're not discussing figurative Nazis or the erosion of the term. We're discussing people literally waving modern variants of historical Nazi flags, historically used Nazi flags, inventing new similar flags, chanting english versions of Nazi slogans, publishing extensive content about racially motivated violence that cites pre-existing Nazi dogma, and cheering acts of spontaneous and fatal violence against those that oppose them. This is not some case of the excluded middle. The word "Nazi" is used judiciously here and no one seems to be feigning confusion except the people who think it should be okay to endorse acts that even our conservatively run justice department things could be categorized as hate crimes. And forgive me, but it's difficult to not hear a note of falseness in this kind of protest. Many of these people in these rallies self-identify as Neo-Nazis, and use slogans that have been associated with violent white-supremacist movements for decades. A powerful deductive intellect is not required to make the connection here. If all that's required to make this right in your book is the prefix "neo-" then please, let me offer you a chrome or firefox plugin to tighten up everyone's language to match one you'll understand. So I ask: are you actually confused here or is this simply a rhetorical tactic?
- ethanhunt_ 9y ago
  Over the years, a common argument I've heard against the tactic of calling all kinds of right-leaning people Nazis and Racists was that one day we might really need to identify Real Nazis as Nazis and then nobody will believe it (the boy who cried wolf). And here we are.
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    I understand in these tumultuous times, life comes at you fast. Let me give you a quick guide on how to recognize a real nazi. Is your subject: - Waving a flag with symbols associated with nazi imagery? - Deliberately using the "heil"? - Chanting, "Jews will not replace us!" while making a salute? - Wearing a conical white hood, open or closed, and white (and possibly scarlet) robes at torchlit rallies? - Calling themselves neo-nazis? Who is actually confused? Are you?
    - shandor 9y ago
      That's not the problem. The problem is that for many, the years and years of calling your run-of-the-mill Republicans and whatnot "nazis" has diluted the term, just like GP mentioned. So, now, when people try to get others to understand that the Nazis we now have are almost exactly the same we had in Germany way back then, people don't really make that connection (even if they say they do) on emotional level. Instead, they associate the self-professed Neo-Nazis with the "nazi Republicans" and the not-really-a-nazi-alt-righters that have been cried at in the 2000's. Source: many acquaintances who are clearly very, very confused on the matter.
      - KirinDave 9y ago
        One would think the literal swastikas would clear that up. These people aren't being terribly subliminal anymore.
        shandor 9y ago
        One would think that, for the people calling Republicans "nazis" in the 2000's, the absence of swastikas and Nazi Hails should have cleared things up. But they did it anyway. People are not simple creatures, and things like crying the wolf actually do confuse us pretty easily.
idoh 9y ago
What do mean by protected class? Cloud flare isn't a restaurant, they can pick clients based on politics.
gnicholas 9y ago
> Political affiliation is a protected class This is not true at the federal level, which is generally what people mean when they refer to "protected classes". However, there are some states that prohibit discrimination based on political affiliation, including California. [1] 1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/08/16/can-private-employers-fire-employees-for-going-to-a-white-supremacist-rally/?utm_term=.b7d743c874ce https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...

ubernostrum 9y ago

The folks in question seem to eagerly and happily apply the word "Nazi" to themselves and embrace the so-called ideals of the German Third Reich. So if you'd like to nitpick over the semantics of "Nazi" versus "adherent of a Nazi-Party-of-Germany-inspired philosophy", be my guest. But I'll be busy opposing them with my every breath, because that's what we do to Nazis.

KirinDave 9y ago

> I don't really know what the word "Nazi" means these days because people have used it to label everyone from far-right conservatives to Trump voters to people who self-identify as neo-Nazis. This coyness about the dilution of meaning is utterly irrelevant here. We're not discussing figurative Nazis or the erosion of the term. We're discussing people literally waving modern variants of historical Nazi flags, historically used Nazi flags, inventing new similar flags, chanting english versions of Nazi slogans, publishing extensive content about racially motivated violence that cites pre-existing Nazi dogma, and cheering acts of spontaneous and fatal violence against those that oppose them. This is not some case of the excluded middle. The word "Nazi" is used judiciously here and no one seems to be feigning confusion except the people who think it should be okay to endorse acts that even our conservatively run justice department things could be categorized as hate crimes. And forgive me, but it's difficult to not hear a note of falseness in this kind of protest. Many of these people in these rallies self-identify as Neo-Nazis, and use slogans that have been associated with violent white-supremacist movements for decades. A powerful deductive intellect is not required to make the connection here. If all that's required to make this right in your book is the prefix "neo-" then please, let me offer you a chrome or firefox plugin to tighten up everyone's language to match one you'll understand. So I ask: are you actually confused here or is this simply a rhetorical tactic?

ethanhunt_ 9y ago
Over the years, a common argument I've heard against the tactic of calling all kinds of right-leaning people Nazis and Racists was that one day we might really need to identify Real Nazis as Nazis and then nobody will believe it (the boy who cried wolf). And here we are.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  I understand in these tumultuous times, life comes at you fast. Let me give you a quick guide on how to recognize a real nazi. Is your subject: - Waving a flag with symbols associated with nazi imagery? - Deliberately using the "heil"? - Chanting, "Jews will not replace us!" while making a salute? - Wearing a conical white hood, open or closed, and white (and possibly scarlet) robes at torchlit rallies? - Calling themselves neo-nazis? Who is actually confused? Are you?
  - shandor 9y ago
    That's not the problem. The problem is that for many, the years and years of calling your run-of-the-mill Republicans and whatnot "nazis" has diluted the term, just like GP mentioned. So, now, when people try to get others to understand that the Nazis we now have are almost exactly the same we had in Germany way back then, people don't really make that connection (even if they say they do) on emotional level. Instead, they associate the self-professed Neo-Nazis with the "nazi Republicans" and the not-really-a-nazi-alt-righters that have been cried at in the 2000's. Source: many acquaintances who are clearly very, very confused on the matter.
    - KirinDave 9y ago
      One would think the literal swastikas would clear that up. These people aren't being terribly subliminal anymore.
      - shandor 9y ago
        One would think that, for the people calling Republicans "nazis" in the 2000's, the absence of swastikas and Nazi Hails should have cleared things up. But they did it anyway. People are not simple creatures, and things like crying the wolf actually do confuse us pretty easily.

idoh 9y ago

What do mean by protected class? Cloud flare isn't a restaurant, they can pick clients based on politics.

gnicholas 9y ago

> Political affiliation is a protected class This is not true at the federal level, which is generally what people mean when they refer to "protected classes". However, there are some states that prohibit discrimination based on political affiliation, including California. [1] 1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/08/16/can-private-employers-fire-employees-for-going-to-a-white-supremacist-rally/?utm_term=.b7d743c874ce https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...