5 ms·

Shenzhen: China’s ‘skyscraper capital’

77 points by williamgb 9y ago

redleggedfrog 9y ago
"...internet access and freedom is curtailed: popular sites like Google, Facebook and YouTube are not accessible." That line caught my attention for two things. One, it intimates internet access is related to freedom, which I think has merit. And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them.
- kbart 9y ago
  "Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them." Most of foreigners traveling in China would certainly disagree with you. No Facebook, no Gmail, no Youtube == "no Internet" for most casual western users.
  - antoinealb 9y ago
    I was in Shenzhen two weeks ago. You just buy a cheap VPN access like everybody in the tech scene there and you go on with your life. It's not hard to do, even from inside the country.
- alien1993 9y ago
  I think they have their chinese counterparts like Baidu, WeChat and the like.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  > And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them. What's more, in parts of China where these websites aren't blocked (Hong Kong, Taiwan if we call it a part of China), they become very popular again and the mainland Chinese alternatives fall off the map.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    The network lockin effect is very strong, sadly. This is why such sites without real alternatives should be controlled by society, and not by companies where two people hold the majority of voting rights.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      I disagree. I trust Larry and Sergei more than I trust Xi and Li.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        The question is if the power is actually with Larry and Sergei, or if someone more powerful could easily seize power from them, or pressure them into doing something they want. If Larry or Sergei die, do you trust all their inheritors? Do you trust all people who can threaten Larry or Sergei? I don't.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        Do you true the next secretly chosen and annointed royal red family president after Xi? That's if Xi actually decides to leave after his term is up, of course.
        kuschku 9y ago
        That's exactly the question, and the issue. And that's why you should trust the chinese government, Google, private internet access, etc all equally much.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        The third world and first world version of these problems are similar in form but completely different in magnitudes.
  - 9y ago
Alexx 9y ago
The most striking thing about visiting the southern industrial cities for me was how (especially towards the outskirts) they tend to build the exact same residential skyscraper several times next to each other. You just don't really see that in Western cities so much.
- jackcarter 9y ago
  The blueprint was Corbusier's "Radiant City" proposal [0]. It took hold in the US in the form of lower-income housing projects. It turns out that it combines the worst of city life (anonymous neighbors, no personal outdoor space) with the worst of suburban life (unused common areas, lots of wasted space). [0]: http://www.archdaily.com/604056/north-america-s-radiant-city-le-corbusier-s-impact-on-new-york http://www.archdaily.com/604056/north-america-s-radiant-city...
  - dilemma 9y ago
    In China, common spaces are actually utilized.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      To an incredible degree. We moved apartment complexes in Beijing because one had a better central area than the other (both were used, but the latter one was used much more).
  - maxsilver 9y ago
    I don't understand these criticisms. As an American, I think our cities would be vastly improved if we copied this form of housing for lots of people, instead of just low-income housing. (In my city, the low-income-only housing is usually the highest quality housing across the city, and is far nicer than anything a mid-income person is allowed to purchase). The current alternative that US prefers is far worse, in my opinion -- these micro-unit apod-ment things, with no personal space, no outdoor space, grossly overburdened personal-areas-forced-into-common-areas, and general dorm-room-for-life lifestyle.
smckt 9y ago
If interested about Shenzhen, I'd highly recommend watching this mesmerizing feature on Wired UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY
smckt 9y ago
If interested about Shenzhen, I'd highly recommend watching this mesmerizing feature on Wired UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY
imron 9y ago
> Shenzen *Shenzhen
- CupOfJava 9y ago
  yeah the zh in zhen is the 'j' in jewel
- dang 9y ago
  Thanks! Fixed.

77 points by williamgb 9y ago

"...internet access and freedom is curtailed: popular sites like Google, Facebook and YouTube are not accessible." That line caught my attention for two things. One, it intimates internet access is related to freedom, which I think has merit. And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them.

kbart 9y ago
"Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them." Most of foreigners traveling in China would certainly disagree with you. No Facebook, no Gmail, no Youtube == "no Internet" for most casual western users.
- antoinealb 9y ago
  I was in Shenzhen two weeks ago. You just buy a cheap VPN access like everybody in the tech scene there and you go on with your life. It's not hard to do, even from inside the country.
alien1993 9y ago
I think they have their chinese counterparts like Baidu, WeChat and the like.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
> And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them. What's more, in parts of China where these websites aren't blocked (Hong Kong, Taiwan if we call it a part of China), they become very popular again and the mainland Chinese alternatives fall off the map.
- kuschku 9y ago
  The network lockin effect is very strong, sadly. This is why such sites without real alternatives should be controlled by society, and not by companies where two people hold the majority of voting rights.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    I disagree. I trust Larry and Sergei more than I trust Xi and Li.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      The question is if the power is actually with Larry and Sergei, or if someone more powerful could easily seize power from them, or pressure them into doing something they want. If Larry or Sergei die, do you trust all their inheritors? Do you trust all people who can threaten Larry or Sergei? I don't.
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        Do you true the next secretly chosen and annointed royal red family president after Xi? That's if Xi actually decides to leave after his term is up, of course.
        kuschku 9y ago
        That's exactly the question, and the issue. And that's why you should trust the chinese government, Google, private internet access, etc all equally much.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        The third world and first world version of these problems are similar in form but completely different in magnitudes.
- 9y ago

Alexx 9y ago

The most striking thing about visiting the southern industrial cities for me was how (especially towards the outskirts) they tend to build the exact same residential skyscraper several times next to each other. You just don't really see that in Western cities so much.

jackcarter 9y ago
The blueprint was Corbusier's "Radiant City" proposal [0]. It took hold in the US in the form of lower-income housing projects. It turns out that it combines the worst of city life (anonymous neighbors, no personal outdoor space) with the worst of suburban life (unused common areas, lots of wasted space). [0]: http://www.archdaily.com/604056/north-america-s-radiant-city-le-corbusier-s-impact-on-new-york http://www.archdaily.com/604056/north-america-s-radiant-city...
- dilemma 9y ago
  In China, common spaces are actually utilized.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    To an incredible degree. We moved apartment complexes in Beijing because one had a better central area than the other (both were used, but the latter one was used much more).
- maxsilver 9y ago
  I don't understand these criticisms. As an American, I think our cities would be vastly improved if we copied this form of housing for lots of people, instead of just low-income housing. (In my city, the low-income-only housing is usually the highest quality housing across the city, and is far nicer than anything a mid-income person is allowed to purchase). The current alternative that US prefers is far worse, in my opinion -- these micro-unit apod-ment things, with no personal space, no outdoor space, grossly overburdened personal-areas-forced-into-common-areas, and general dorm-room-for-life lifestyle.

smckt 9y ago

If interested about Shenzhen, I'd highly recommend watching this mesmerizing feature on Wired UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY

smckt 9y ago

If interested about Shenzhen, I'd highly recommend watching this mesmerizing feature on Wired UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY

imron 9y ago

> Shenzen *Shenzhen

CupOfJava 9y ago
yeah the zh in zhen is the 'j' in jewel
dang 9y ago
Thanks! Fixed.