7 ms·

I don't think using pain to control a child's behaviour is good parenting. I'm sorry you where abused.

by bobbin 16y ago

steverb 16y ago
Yes, because nature doesn't use pain to teach us ever. That's why I can leave my hand on a hot stove until it turns black. There is a difference between corporal punishment/discipline and abuse.
- bobbin 16y ago
  > Yes, because nature doesn't use pain to teach us ever. That's why I can leave my hand on a hot stove until it turns black. I don't to see how is this an argument. I'm not objecting the notion that people can learn to avoid what causes pain. How is it that what you wrote makes sense and supports your case? (that controlling children through pain is good parenting). > There is a difference between corporal punishment/discipline and abuse. You are right. Abuse is just abuse, and corporal punishment is abuse with the propose of shaping someone's behaviour. There is a difference. I would agree that someone who does "corporal punishment" can have good intentions.
  - steverb 16y ago
    All discipline is painful. Whether it's physical pain or emotional pain. I believe, based on purely anecdotal evidence, that physical pain is less harmful to a child's emotional well being. Corporal punishment, if administered properly, is over in an instant, and once the child has been made to understand that what they did is not acceptable (and optionally why, depending on the child's age) then reconciliation between the child and the parent can take place. Also, keep in mind that different types of discipline are appropriate for different children. I don't think it makes sense to spank a two year old, because they probably wouldn't remember why they were being spanked, but a light slap on the hand when they go to grab that priceless vase is pretty effective. I also don't spank my teen-aged son, but he has had to do his fair share of push-ups while listening to me explain to him the error of his ways. Now, you may be one of those parents who don't discipline your child at all. More power to you, but bear in mind that if you do not discipline your child and teach them proper from improper behavior, then society WILL do it for you. And the methods society uses are probably going to be much more painful.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - bobbin 16y ago
      > I also don't spank my teen-aged son, but he has had to do his fair share of push-ups while listening to me explain to him the error of his ways. He doesn't have to. It's not an requirement of life that he does. He's just submissive towards you. I don't see why should it be a requirement. If he does, then why are they still a requirement? If he doesn't, why is it a good thing for him to comply? Why is he afraid? why is he submissive? I understand you are not going to accept reality here. I know you have rationalizations to justify causing fear and pain in your "parenting". I understand it seem reasonable to you and that's not going to change. I quit.
- jtheory 16y ago
  My mother stopped using corporal punishment on us when my older brother (at 3 years old) explained that he was justified in hitting me, because hurting people was okay if they were smaller than you. He was practicing. Children, even from when they're very little, know the difference between hurting themselves on something hot and you, their parent, intentionally causing them pain. Even if your punishments are consistent, there's no chance they will mistake you for a force of nature. I imagine that some corporal punishment is better for a kid than letting them run wild, but that's a straw man; simply teaching them non-violently (i.e., through example) how to interact with others has a better result overall than using pain to control them. This makes sense intuitively and is well-supported by research.
dasil003 16y ago
I would never spank my own children, but that's a parenting choice. This societal moralizing about every single aspect of how one should raise their children is a big part of the problem described in the article. For the record, spanking is not necessarily abuse. For you to cite unequivocably that it is is pure unthinking political correctness. Parenting is complicated, psychology is complicated. Is everyone who was born before 1950 irretrievably fucked up? How many of them got spankings?
- bobbin 16y ago
  > This societal moralizing about every single aspect of how one should raise their children is a big part of the problem described in the article. Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with "every single aspect". It's not about "every single aspect", although it is moralizing about compulsion and pain. > For the record, spanking is not necessarily abuse. depends of the definition. > For you to cite unequivocably that it is is pure unthinking political correctness. You don't know how much though I have put into the subject and calling it political correctness is incorrect unless careing about whether or not people use pain and fear to shape children is just political correctness. > Parenting is complicated, psychology is complicated ... > Is everyone who was born before 1950 irretrievably fucked up? I don't know if "irretrievably", but I think almost everyone is psychologically damaged in some way or another.
  - dasil003 16y ago
    Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with No, it's fully earned. I am a parent. I have witnessed first hand the moralizing, judgement and mutually contradictory universal expectations that random people have about how childrearing should be done. You don't know how much though I have put into the subject and calling it political correctness is incorrect... Fair enough, you may have put substantial thought into how parenting should work from a theoretical perspective. ...unless careing about whether or not people use pain and fear to shape children is just political correctness Reframing the debate in terms so negative that anyone would appear insane to disagree with them is classic political correctness. I don't know if "irretrievably", but I think almost everyone is psychologically damaged in some way or another. Which raises the question, is your duty as a parent to prevent any and all psychological damage to your child? If the goal is to minimize suffering, then is it better to indulge your child and raise an entitled spoiled individual that will never be satisfied for the rest of their life. Or is it better to "use fear" (the fear of consequences, whatever they may be) to raise a child that has some notion of negative cause and effect?
herdrick 16y ago
Here we go. If you thought language flamewars are bad...
- maukdaddy 16y ago
  Hopefully no one will bring up circumcision. Oh shit.

I don't think using pain to control a child's behaviour is good parenting. I'm sorry you where abused.

by bobbin 16y ago

I don't think using pain to control a child's behaviour is good parenting. I'm sorry you where abused.

Yes, because nature doesn't use pain to teach us ever. That's why I can leave my hand on a hot stove until it turns black. There is a difference between corporal punishment/discipline and abuse.

bobbin 16y ago
> Yes, because nature doesn't use pain to teach us ever. That's why I can leave my hand on a hot stove until it turns black. I don't to see how is this an argument. I'm not objecting the notion that people can learn to avoid what causes pain. How is it that what you wrote makes sense and supports your case? (that controlling children through pain is good parenting). > There is a difference between corporal punishment/discipline and abuse. You are right. Abuse is just abuse, and corporal punishment is abuse with the propose of shaping someone's behaviour. There is a difference. I would agree that someone who does "corporal punishment" can have good intentions.
- steverb 16y ago
  All discipline is painful. Whether it's physical pain or emotional pain. I believe, based on purely anecdotal evidence, that physical pain is less harmful to a child's emotional well being. Corporal punishment, if administered properly, is over in an instant, and once the child has been made to understand that what they did is not acceptable (and optionally why, depending on the child's age) then reconciliation between the child and the parent can take place. Also, keep in mind that different types of discipline are appropriate for different children. I don't think it makes sense to spank a two year old, because they probably wouldn't remember why they were being spanked, but a light slap on the hand when they go to grab that priceless vase is pretty effective. I also don't spank my teen-aged son, but he has had to do his fair share of push-ups while listening to me explain to him the error of his ways. Now, you may be one of those parents who don't discipline your child at all. More power to you, but bear in mind that if you do not discipline your child and teach them proper from improper behavior, then society WILL do it for you. And the methods society uses are probably going to be much more painful.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - bobbin 16y ago
    > I also don't spank my teen-aged son, but he has had to do his fair share of push-ups while listening to me explain to him the error of his ways. He doesn't have to. It's not an requirement of life that he does. He's just submissive towards you. I don't see why should it be a requirement. If he does, then why are they still a requirement? If he doesn't, why is it a good thing for him to comply? Why is he afraid? why is he submissive? I understand you are not going to accept reality here. I know you have rationalizations to justify causing fear and pain in your "parenting". I understand it seem reasonable to you and that's not going to change. I quit.
jtheory 16y ago
My mother stopped using corporal punishment on us when my older brother (at 3 years old) explained that he was justified in hitting me, because hurting people was okay if they were smaller than you. He was practicing. Children, even from when they're very little, know the difference between hurting themselves on something hot and you, their parent, intentionally causing them pain. Even if your punishments are consistent, there's no chance they will mistake you for a force of nature. I imagine that some corporal punishment is better for a kid than letting them run wild, but that's a straw man; simply teaching them non-violently (i.e., through example) how to interact with others has a better result overall than using pain to control them. This makes sense intuitively and is well-supported by research.

dasil003 16y ago

I would never spank my own children, but that's a parenting choice. This societal moralizing about every single aspect of how one should raise their children is a big part of the problem described in the article. For the record, spanking is not necessarily abuse. For you to cite unequivocably that it is is pure unthinking political correctness. Parenting is complicated, psychology is complicated. Is everyone who was born before 1950 irretrievably fucked up? How many of them got spankings?

bobbin 16y ago
> This societal moralizing about every single aspect of how one should raise their children is a big part of the problem described in the article. Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with "every single aspect". It's not about "every single aspect", although it is moralizing about compulsion and pain. > For the record, spanking is not necessarily abuse. depends of the definition. > For you to cite unequivocably that it is is pure unthinking political correctness. You don't know how much though I have put into the subject and calling it political correctness is incorrect unless careing about whether or not people use pain and fear to shape children is just political correctness. > Parenting is complicated, psychology is complicated ... > Is everyone who was born before 1950 irretrievably fucked up? I don't know if "irretrievably", but I think almost everyone is psychologically damaged in some way or another.
- dasil003 16y ago
  Well, you are trying to add unearned emphasis with No, it's fully earned. I am a parent. I have witnessed first hand the moralizing, judgement and mutually contradictory universal expectations that random people have about how childrearing should be done. You don't know how much though I have put into the subject and calling it political correctness is incorrect... Fair enough, you may have put substantial thought into how parenting should work from a theoretical perspective. ...unless careing about whether or not people use pain and fear to shape children is just political correctness Reframing the debate in terms so negative that anyone would appear insane to disagree with them is classic political correctness. I don't know if "irretrievably", but I think almost everyone is psychologically damaged in some way or another. Which raises the question, is your duty as a parent to prevent any and all psychological damage to your child? If the goal is to minimize suffering, then is it better to indulge your child and raise an entitled spoiled individual that will never be satisfied for the rest of their life. Or is it better to "use fear" (the fear of consequences, whatever they may be) to raise a child that has some notion of negative cause and effect?

herdrick 16y ago

Here we go. If you thought language flamewars are bad...

maukdaddy 16y ago
Hopefully no one will bring up circumcision. Oh shit.