6 ms·

What you are not being told by your favorite main-stream media - but is important to understand the "conflict" - is that the territory of the Former Yugoslav Re

by binarray2000 9y ago

What you are not being told by your favorite main-stream media - but is important to understand the "conflict" - is that the territory of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia was, prior to the end of the WW1, territory of Serbia and it was (together with Kosovo and Metohija and Raška [Rashka]) called "Old Serbia": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Serbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Serbia After the WW1, it was still a territory of Serbia (which was one of the winners) and that territory was brought by Serbia into the "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes" which was later renamed "Kingdom of Yugoslavia": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Yugoslavia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Yugoslavia Now the question is: Why have Tito (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito) and the Communists after WW2 drawn the lines of new republics in such a way that Serbia has essentially lost the territory?

chumali 9y ago
It is because of nationalist propaganda such as this that the 'conflict' will never die. Despite all the blood that has been shed in pursuit of Greater Serbia (Balkan wars, WWI, Yugoslav Wars) people like you continue to push their nationalist agenda with no regard for ethnographic or economic considerations. The region has suffered immensely from these conflicts and yet still Serbian nationalists aggressively pursue expansionism blindly and bitterly. It speaks volumes that the Serbian president is on record advocating genocide and sympathising with war criminals yet still received overwhelming support during the last election.
- binarray2000 9y ago
  Aaaaahhhhh... those outworn words and phrases: "nationalist propaganda", "Greater Serbia", "Serbian nationalists aggressively pursue expansionism". I don't know where you live and or your nationality, but looks like those words were taken from "How to demonize those you want to conquer"-manual, that the US/UK/EU empire uses for all those who want to live free (Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, Serbs...). Further, it seems OK for all those who mindlessly use those phrases that Albanians can create their states (and plan Greater Albania), that it is OK for the Germans to unite and create greater (Greater?) Germany, and it is OK that the Croats who have been "dreaming for a thousand of years" to have their own state to get it. But for the Serbs to be in one state where they would live together and free on territories where Serbs have lived for thousands of years, that is "nationalist propaganda"! Where is the logic in that? To add to this: - Serbs were the first and major peoples who have truly fought the Ottoman Empire (1389 in Kosovo Polje) - Serbs were tho only ones in the "Balkans" who, after being occupied by the Ottomans, have constantly and truly rebelled against them. For almost 500 years! - Serbs were the only ones in the "Balkans" who have fought in the WW1 on the right side (over 2/3 of the male population between 18 and 55 were dead in that war) - Serbs were the ones in the "Balkans" who have fought in the WW2 on the right side (over 60% of the partisans were Serbs) - In 1999, 19 NATO states have attacked Serbia after US/UK empire has supported "the rebels" (the same scenario was later applied in Libya and Syria). After 78 days, Serbia and NATO have signed a peace agreement, not a capitulation of Serbia. That is only a part of your glorious past in which we were attacked and had to fight a much, much stronger enemy. And it's only the last 600 years of constant attacks! Which other "nation" in the "Balkans" has done (or gone through) that? (maybe the reason for the hatred of the Serbs in the "Balkans" stems from the fact that they are not doing what other "nations" are: Always support the oppressor [Hitler, Ottomans, Austria-Hungary, NATO], build concentration camps for the innocent, accept the Pope, always have the foreign king...) Also, let's talks about victims. For brevity, I'll mention the WW2 and 700.000 Serbs (mostly civilians; children, as well) killed in the Croatian concentration camp Jasenovac. Which is a fraction of the two million Serbs killed during the WW2. To speak about Serbian kings, about Serbian states, about Serbian culture, heritage, religion, science (Milutin Milanković, Mihajlo Pupin, Ruđer Bošković, Nikola Tesla - to name a few) would take too much time. Regarding Vučić ("the Serbian president"): (1) He is an IDIOT. He always was and still is. In the past ('90ies) he proclaimed "we should kill 100 Muslims for each Serb" which is against everything that is Serbian way of thinking and fighting. (2) Now he is the favorite of the US/UK/EU empire. They have brought that IDIOT to power to finally let Kosovo i Metohija to the Albanians and their masters (US/UK/EU empire), to definitely destroy Serbian economy, culture, to burden the debt on the Serbs etc. (3) It is VERY, VERY fishy what happened in the last election in Serbia. There were sooooo many irregularities that, if brought to the court, the whole election would be void (and that IDIOT would lose). Of course, US/UK/EU empire is quiet about irregularities because they don't care what their stooge is doing as long he's on their mission.
  - rospaya 9y ago
    I come to HN to escape from the "poor Serbian" version of history, not read about it in English instead of Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian. Go back to 4chan.
    - cholantesh 9y ago
      I think even on /pol/ such a post would be met with groans (or choice epithets).
    - binarray2000 9y ago
      Instead of an argument you use belittling. Very "smart" of you. From the context I assume your family roots are in the "Balkans" and you understand Serbian but you are not a Serb, so one question: What is the version of history of your peoples?
nradov 9y ago
At this point what does it matter why Tito did what he did? Serbia certainly has been hard done by in some ways, but complaining about the loss of Macedonia and Kosovo is utterly pointless now. There is no conceivable way of getting them to combine into a single nation state. If the Serbian leaders wanted to retain those territories the time to do something was 25+ years ago. Kiss them goodbye and move on instead of dwelling in the past.

chumali 9y ago

It is because of nationalist propaganda such as this that the 'conflict' will never die. Despite all the blood that has been shed in pursuit of Greater Serbia (Balkan wars, WWI, Yugoslav Wars) people like you continue to push their nationalist agenda with no regard for ethnographic or economic considerations. The region has suffered immensely from these conflicts and yet still Serbian nationalists aggressively pursue expansionism blindly and bitterly. It speaks volumes that the Serbian president is on record advocating genocide and sympathising with war criminals yet still received overwhelming support during the last election.

binarray2000 9y ago
Aaaaahhhhh... those outworn words and phrases: "nationalist propaganda", "Greater Serbia", "Serbian nationalists aggressively pursue expansionism". I don't know where you live and or your nationality, but looks like those words were taken from "How to demonize those you want to conquer"-manual, that the US/UK/EU empire uses for all those who want to live free (Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, Serbs...). Further, it seems OK for all those who mindlessly use those phrases that Albanians can create their states (and plan Greater Albania), that it is OK for the Germans to unite and create greater (Greater?) Germany, and it is OK that the Croats who have been "dreaming for a thousand of years" to have their own state to get it. But for the Serbs to be in one state where they would live together and free on territories where Serbs have lived for thousands of years, that is "nationalist propaganda"! Where is the logic in that? To add to this: - Serbs were the first and major peoples who have truly fought the Ottoman Empire (1389 in Kosovo Polje) - Serbs were tho only ones in the "Balkans" who, after being occupied by the Ottomans, have constantly and truly rebelled against them. For almost 500 years! - Serbs were the only ones in the "Balkans" who have fought in the WW1 on the right side (over 2/3 of the male population between 18 and 55 were dead in that war) - Serbs were the ones in the "Balkans" who have fought in the WW2 on the right side (over 60% of the partisans were Serbs) - In 1999, 19 NATO states have attacked Serbia after US/UK empire has supported "the rebels" (the same scenario was later applied in Libya and Syria). After 78 days, Serbia and NATO have signed a peace agreement, not a capitulation of Serbia. That is only a part of your glorious past in which we were attacked and had to fight a much, much stronger enemy. And it's only the last 600 years of constant attacks! Which other "nation" in the "Balkans" has done (or gone through) that? (maybe the reason for the hatred of the Serbs in the "Balkans" stems from the fact that they are not doing what other "nations" are: Always support the oppressor [Hitler, Ottomans, Austria-Hungary, NATO], build concentration camps for the innocent, accept the Pope, always have the foreign king...) Also, let's talks about victims. For brevity, I'll mention the WW2 and 700.000 Serbs (mostly civilians; children, as well) killed in the Croatian concentration camp Jasenovac. Which is a fraction of the two million Serbs killed during the WW2. To speak about Serbian kings, about Serbian states, about Serbian culture, heritage, religion, science (Milutin Milanković, Mihajlo Pupin, Ruđer Bošković, Nikola Tesla - to name a few) would take too much time. Regarding Vučić ("the Serbian president"): (1) He is an IDIOT. He always was and still is. In the past ('90ies) he proclaimed "we should kill 100 Muslims for each Serb" which is against everything that is Serbian way of thinking and fighting. (2) Now he is the favorite of the US/UK/EU empire. They have brought that IDIOT to power to finally let Kosovo i Metohija to the Albanians and their masters (US/UK/EU empire), to definitely destroy Serbian economy, culture, to burden the debt on the Serbs etc. (3) It is VERY, VERY fishy what happened in the last election in Serbia. There were sooooo many irregularities that, if brought to the court, the whole election would be void (and that IDIOT would lose). Of course, US/UK/EU empire is quiet about irregularities because they don't care what their stooge is doing as long he's on their mission.
- rospaya 9y ago
  I come to HN to escape from the "poor Serbian" version of history, not read about it in English instead of Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian. Go back to 4chan.
  - cholantesh 9y ago
    I think even on /pol/ such a post would be met with groans (or choice epithets).
  - binarray2000 9y ago
    Instead of an argument you use belittling. Very "smart" of you. From the context I assume your family roots are in the "Balkans" and you understand Serbian but you are not a Serb, so one question: What is the version of history of your peoples?

nradov 9y ago

At this point what does it matter why Tito did what he did? Serbia certainly has been hard done by in some ways, but complaining about the loss of Macedonia and Kosovo is utterly pointless now. There is no conceivable way of getting them to combine into a single nation state. If the Serbian leaders wanted to retain those territories the time to do something was 25+ years ago. Kiss them goodbye and move on instead of dwelling in the past.