9 ms·

I don't think I was cynical at all. I just took the most straightforward literal interpretation of what she wrote. And I think she really meant it since other

I don't think I was cynical at all. I just took the most straightforward literal interpretation of what she wrote. And I think she really meant it since otherwise she would have apologized for any misunderstanding by now. About he idea that the author's intention was to provoke thinking. What kind of thinking was it suppose to provoke? Push people to self-hate for who they are? Make the ones in the other camp sharpen their pitchforks and attack math departments until they comply with her lunacy? On the idea that if you write something racist then you are not a racist. Yes you are. What she wrote was not comedy and it wasn't funny at all to me so she does not get the comedy pass.

jordigh 9y ago
> Push people to self-hate for who they are? Did you read the post? She says that's pointless and useless. She also acknowledges that her blog post isn't going to change anything. Nobody is going to quit because they read this. She has no power to fire anyone. White men, on the other hand, have the power to not hire her, to fire her, and so forth. So what's the damage? Why are you mounting an all-out attack against her because you were reminded of her thesis? Why are you hurting so much?
- SidiousL 9y ago
  Did you read the post? Yes. Remember, I linked to it. And, as painful as it was, I did read the whole thing. White men, on the other hand, have the power to not hire her, to fire her, and so forth. So the implication is that a majority of these white men in position of power are bigoted? I think an alternative explanation for her not getting hired is that maybe she didn't meet their standards. I understand that this is maybe a difficult conclusion to accept if you're a female supremacist with a fragile ego. Why are you mounting an all-out attack against her because you were reminded of her thesis? I think the attack is well-deserved for reasons that should be obvious by now.
  - jordigh 9y ago
    Please address my points. If you read the whole thing, you should have read that she says that your self hate isn't what she wants. She explicitly says that's useless. If white men aren't responsible, then who is? Her perceived attack is completely without power. She has no power to harm you. She addresses this in the post. So why do you feel so hurt? Why is it so painful? Who hurt you, buddy? Please remember that your guilt is pointless. Pointless. Nobody wants you to self-hate. Your intentions can be noble and pure, your prejudices (which you do have, just like anyone else) can be unintentional, and you can still be taking up unwarranted space.
    - SidiousL 9y ago
      If white men aren't responsible, then who is? Maybe she is responsible for her own failures. What a radical idea is that? Who hurt you, buddy? Please, I'm not your buddy. you can still be taking up unwarranted space According to whom? A deranged feminist blogger? Maybe her opinion does not matter for a reason.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - jordigh 9y ago
        > Maybe she is responsible for her own failures. What a radical idea is that? She's not talking about herself, but about the whole thing. The whole imbalance. So you think it's black people's fault that there aren't more of them in academia? White people have done nothing wrong, it's black people who aren't trying hard enough? You don't think that is a racist idea? It ignores the heritage of centuries of oppression. Who hurt you? Why are you hurting so much? What are you so afraid of?
        dang 9y ago
        Would you please stop engaging in ideological flamewar on HN? It is not what this site is for. I haven't banned your account because you haven't used HN primarily for this. Nevertheless, feeding trolls is trolling in its own right. It perpetuates the worst dynamics of the internet and those are what we have to proactively moderate lest this site be engulfed in flames. So please don't do this again.
- SidiousL 9y ago
  What's the damage? The damage is that racism is evil irrespective of who the racist is (and yes, black people can be racist too, as any reputable dictionary should be able to prove to you). And every instance of it should be denounced, especially the more egregious ones like this one. You can say, there's no problem, she doesn't have any power. I would counter that it's not true. These people have large followings and many apologists (like yourself). And even if it were true that she had no power, her hate should be confronted. People should learn the limits of good behavior in civilized society. You say this is not about instilling guilt, because the author said so. I will put it to you that even if it was not her intention (and I'm not so sure about that), it might still end up happening (if you want to understand the kind of effect such accusations, even when only implied, can have on people, read [http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2119] http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2119]). When I read "you are the problem" it sure sounds like an accusation to me (and a pretty serious one at that). And this accusation is surely bigoted when you apply it indiscriminately to a whole class of people.
  - jordigh 9y ago
    > The damage is that racism is evil irrespective of who the racist is But... why? You're not giving an example of any damage other than abstractions like "evil". Did you lose your job? Do you fear for your safety? Are you being unfairly judged? Did you have an unfair disadvantage under some minority group? To quote a well-known feminist, men are afraid of being laughed at, but women are afraid of getting killed. > These people have large followings and many apologists (like yourself) But our power isn't comparable. We can write a few blog posts or HN comments. White men make the hiring decisions. This is not the same kind of thing. > if you want to understand the kind of effect such accusations, Sorry for not responding earlier to the Scott Aaronson blog post, but it's a bit long. I just read a bit bit of it, I'm not sure what part of that story you're referring to. You can understand being part of a problem through no fault of your own, right? That's what I was trying to convey with the traffic analogy. To quip, you're not in traffic, you are traffic?

jordigh 9y ago

> Push people to self-hate for who they are? Did you read the post? She says that's pointless and useless. She also acknowledges that her blog post isn't going to change anything. Nobody is going to quit because they read this. She has no power to fire anyone. White men, on the other hand, have the power to not hire her, to fire her, and so forth. So what's the damage? Why are you mounting an all-out attack against her because you were reminded of her thesis? Why are you hurting so much?

SidiousL 9y ago
Did you read the post? Yes. Remember, I linked to it. And, as painful as it was, I did read the whole thing. White men, on the other hand, have the power to not hire her, to fire her, and so forth. So the implication is that a majority of these white men in position of power are bigoted? I think an alternative explanation for her not getting hired is that maybe she didn't meet their standards. I understand that this is maybe a difficult conclusion to accept if you're a female supremacist with a fragile ego. Why are you mounting an all-out attack against her because you were reminded of her thesis? I think the attack is well-deserved for reasons that should be obvious by now.
- jordigh 9y ago
  Please address my points. If you read the whole thing, you should have read that she says that your self hate isn't what she wants. She explicitly says that's useless. If white men aren't responsible, then who is? Her perceived attack is completely without power. She has no power to harm you. She addresses this in the post. So why do you feel so hurt? Why is it so painful? Who hurt you, buddy? Please remember that your guilt is pointless. Pointless. Nobody wants you to self-hate. Your intentions can be noble and pure, your prejudices (which you do have, just like anyone else) can be unintentional, and you can still be taking up unwarranted space.
  - SidiousL 9y ago
    If white men aren't responsible, then who is? Maybe she is responsible for her own failures. What a radical idea is that? Who hurt you, buddy? Please, I'm not your buddy. you can still be taking up unwarranted space According to whom? A deranged feminist blogger? Maybe her opinion does not matter for a reason.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - jordigh 9y ago
      > Maybe she is responsible for her own failures. What a radical idea is that? She's not talking about herself, but about the whole thing. The whole imbalance. So you think it's black people's fault that there aren't more of them in academia? White people have done nothing wrong, it's black people who aren't trying hard enough? You don't think that is a racist idea? It ignores the heritage of centuries of oppression. Who hurt you? Why are you hurting so much? What are you so afraid of?
      - dang 9y ago
        Would you please stop engaging in ideological flamewar on HN? It is not what this site is for. I haven't banned your account because you haven't used HN primarily for this. Nevertheless, feeding trolls is trolling in its own right. It perpetuates the worst dynamics of the internet and those are what we have to proactively moderate lest this site be engulfed in flames. So please don't do this again.
SidiousL 9y ago
What's the damage? The damage is that racism is evil irrespective of who the racist is (and yes, black people can be racist too, as any reputable dictionary should be able to prove to you). And every instance of it should be denounced, especially the more egregious ones like this one. You can say, there's no problem, she doesn't have any power. I would counter that it's not true. These people have large followings and many apologists (like yourself). And even if it were true that she had no power, her hate should be confronted. People should learn the limits of good behavior in civilized society. You say this is not about instilling guilt, because the author said so. I will put it to you that even if it was not her intention (and I'm not so sure about that), it might still end up happening (if you want to understand the kind of effect such accusations, even when only implied, can have on people, read [http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2119] http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2119]). When I read "you are the problem" it sure sounds like an accusation to me (and a pretty serious one at that). And this accusation is surely bigoted when you apply it indiscriminately to a whole class of people.
- jordigh 9y ago
  > The damage is that racism is evil irrespective of who the racist is But... why? You're not giving an example of any damage other than abstractions like "evil". Did you lose your job? Do you fear for your safety? Are you being unfairly judged? Did you have an unfair disadvantage under some minority group? To quote a well-known feminist, men are afraid of being laughed at, but women are afraid of getting killed. > These people have large followings and many apologists (like yourself) But our power isn't comparable. We can write a few blog posts or HN comments. White men make the hiring decisions. This is not the same kind of thing. > if you want to understand the kind of effect such accusations, Sorry for not responding earlier to the Scott Aaronson blog post, but it's a bit long. I just read a bit bit of it, I'm not sure what part of that story you're referring to. You can understand being part of a problem through no fault of your own, right? That's what I was trying to convey with the traffic analogy. To quip, you're not in traffic, you are traffic?