7 ms·

I think a good example is the "Our app is huge, like my dick." line. As a guy, this line was pretty funny, and I could see myself saying it (on an all male tea

I think a good example is the "Our app is huge, like my dick." line. As a guy, this line was pretty funny, and I could see myself saying it (on an all male team). I might not say it in front of female coworkers though, but if I worked closely with one I may say it within earshot without thinking about it. It certainly wasn't an attack on the poster. Are we just not allowed to talk about genitalia? I guess as a baseline rule it's inappropriate, sure, but he's not being suggestive or soliciting. As described, it's obviously a joke. Not sure where the offense is here other than he said "dick" in the workplace within earshot of someone who doesn't want to hear that. I'll finish by saying that the rest of it was certainly uncalled for, but this one instance doesn't really stand on it's own as offensive.

gorkonsine 9y ago
As a male, if you said that around me on an all-male team, my opinion of you would plummet to close to zero. Comments like that are entirely unprofessional. Are you French by chance? Because I've never heard such stupid shit here in the US in a professional workplace. Maybe I'm just lucky.
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  I guess the downvotes here show that Silicon Valley tech workers really are as sexist and misogynistic as the French jerks in the article. I guess I just never noticed because I've never worked in SV, especially not with younger Millennials.
  - cblock811 9y ago
    Wow you have a lot of self esteem tied up in your kharma points if you need to go out of your way to post this.
- tickthokk 9y ago
  US based, not west coast though. Maybe I'm lucky to work in a place that lets me have some fun. It seems prudish to knock somebody down just because they say "dick" in public.
  - gorkonsine 9y ago
    You really think female coworkers want to hear about your sexual organs at work? You're exactly like the men in the article, and everything that's wrong with this industry. I guess I've somehow managed to avoid working with unprofessional sexists like you.
    - qb45 9y ago
      There are no female coworkers on an all-male team, you just rejected such jokes on principle. And no, I'm not from SV. I think many developers from all over the world, particularly of the sort hanging out at HN, will consider your stance somewhat crazy.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - mac01021 9y ago
    It's not being prudish. It's just that to be amused by such a line seems puerile.
jonny_eh 9y ago
> Are we just not allowed to talk about genitalia? Yes. It's highly unprofessional.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Are we just not allowed to talk about genitalia? In a work environment, if there isn't a solid work-related need to make a literal (not metaphorical) reference to genitalia, it's a good idea not to refer to genitalia. I wouldn't say “not allowed”, but it wouldn't be the worst idea to treat it that way. > As a guy, this line was pretty funny, and I could see myself saying it (on an all male team). I As a guy, this line is the kind of thing I would have found funny the year I started high school, but found obnoxious by the time I finished. > I guess as a baseline rule it's inappropriate, sure, but he's not being suggestive or soliciting. Perhaps, but while those things would make it more inappropriate, there absence doesn't make it appropriate. > As described, it's obviously a joke. Sure, but being intended as a joke doesn't make it appropriate either. Particular jokes, despite being jokes, can be inappropriate for work.
greglindahl 9y ago
As a man, even on an all-male team, I don't want to hear that sort of thing. And it doesn't help if it's intended to be a joke.
root_axis 9y ago
Nah man, we don't talk about our genitals at work, that's just basic level professionalism. Also, do you really think that's a funny line? To me, it sounds like the type of joke where the room rolls their eyes and cringes. It's not at all clever or original, it's the type of joke made by people who think they're funny but everyone actually thinks they're annoying. I mean shit, at least make some kind of allusion to your genital size through inference, just coming out and saying "LOOK AT THIS BIG THING, MY DICK IS THE SAME SIZE AS THE BIG THING LOL" is about is unfunny as it gets.
- pas 9y ago
  I have teammates and we curse/swear/foulmouth/trashtalk like a deployed infantry unit, but sometimes we have clients/partners/friends over, and we somehow make it through without any fucks or other expeltives. Pretty magical, huh? It's social aptitude, some people just have less of it. (No wonder they hadn't become lawyers, doctors, politicians.) Basic rule is try to accomodate others if it's no problem for you. If it is, discuss it, and settle on the professional/formal way if others feel your preferences are too far from theirs. Constantly monitor others' well being. For most people it's automatic, for some autists it's literally impossible. Again, it's a safe default to be formal/professional, and then ease up, if all parties feel okay with that.
  - root_axis 9y ago
    If we lived in a world where everyone was capable of assessing and respecting appropriate boundaries we wouldn't need professional standards at all, the entire point of professionalism is to remove the ambiguity so that these types of issues can be avoided. The swearing/foulmouth/trashtalk culture does not scale, you need to be able to bring on new employees and not worry about them getting cursed out because someone misjudged their comfort levels; and contrary to what you seem to be implying, you don't need to be autistic to misjudge someone's comfort levels, people are complicated and at some point, someone will get it wrong, and then you have a ton of wasted productivity while harmless jokes become office drama. Also, there is a big distinction between an environment where moderate but restrained use of profanity is accepted as normal adult language and an environment where your co-workers are discussing their genitals and other sexual topics.
tzs 9y ago
If a coworker says "Our app is huge, like my dick", I'd say that gives his implicit consent for others to use his dick for comparisons, at least for a while: "The bug was just a small one, like <coworker>'s dick". "We missed processing the event because it came too soon, like <coworker>'s dick". "Dammit...I need to reset this router and don't have a pin to poke the reset hole. <Coworker>, can you use your dick to do it for me?" Being the butt of dick jokes for a week (especially if some of these making them are women) will probably strongly discourage <coworker> from making future comparisons to his own dick.
- tyrw 9y ago
  This is a truly terrible idea
- flukus 9y ago
  This used to be acceptable in many smaller places, even ones with women because it was a much harder burn coming from them. These days you have to just go to work and avoided any sort of socializing or non-work related discussion, keep work life and social life completely segregated and hope that's enough (it isn't always). This is the world political correctness (or professionalism if you prefer) has created. Best to avoid eye contact too, someone could misinterpret that as flirting.
yongjik 9y ago
As a straight male developer who (usually) doesn't identify as a feminist, I must say: that's cringe-worthy, unprofessional, and honestly not funny at all. And thinking such a comment is funny (and acceptable) at workplace could limit your career in the future. Most good developers don't want to work with someone "joking" about their dicks at work. Well, I might have found it funny when I was 17. So reserve that kind of joke for a beer night with your high school friends. * Besides, what kind of developer wants to boast their app is "huge"?
tickthokk 9y ago
Woof, a lot of reply's to this one. Everybody's taken this to mean that I'd just go around yelling "Dick" every hour on the hour, or that I would be describing last night's penetration to everybody. Of course not. Yes you would read the room first, but I still think you should have the freedom to express yourself if you're not harming others. Just because you don't like swear words, and you hear one from me, doesn't mean that I'm harming you. People calling it unprofessional are likely browsing HN or Reddit while at work. Not sure how much that aligns with being professional. By the way, if you're not wearing a suit right now you're being unprofessional. Maybe getting your work done is the only baseline to being professional, and saying "dick" doesn't stop me or you from getting work done. To the people who don't think dick jokes are funny. I do. You don't. shrug
- yongjik 9y ago
  Protip: When a lot of people disagree with you, you could either say nothing, say "I might be wrong, so let me think over it," or simply agree to disagree. But please don't say stuff like "if you're not wearing a suit you're being unprofessional": that's absurd false equivalence, and the only thing it signals is that you're a person who hates losing an argument so much that you will pick up any argument you can think of. It's all fine here at HN, where only imaginary internet points are at stake, but as I have said, earning such a reputation at workplace will hurt your career.
- root_axis 9y ago
  > To the people who don't think dick jokes are funny. I do. You don't. shrug Right... this is the reason we have professional standards, because humor is not universal and some people aren't cool with certain sexual topics. Some people think scat and rape jokes are funny too, but just because they do doesn't mean it should be permissible discussion in the office. In a professional environment we keep sexual discussion to the absolute minimum necessary because sex is a controversial topic that is completely irrelevant to the job (in 99% of jobs).
pkilgore 9y ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw1cdRew-Zg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw1cdRew-Zg
cjbprime 9y ago
You are not allowed to talk about genitalia at work. There are literally laws about this in the US. It is mindblowing that you find this an unacceptable restriction.

gorkonsine 9y ago

As a male, if you said that around me on an all-male team, my opinion of you would plummet to close to zero. Comments like that are entirely unprofessional. Are you French by chance? Because I've never heard such stupid shit here in the US in a professional workplace. Maybe I'm just lucky.

gorkonsine 9y ago
I guess the downvotes here show that Silicon Valley tech workers really are as sexist and misogynistic as the French jerks in the article. I guess I just never noticed because I've never worked in SV, especially not with younger Millennials.
- cblock811 9y ago
  Wow you have a lot of self esteem tied up in your kharma points if you need to go out of your way to post this.
tickthokk 9y ago
US based, not west coast though. Maybe I'm lucky to work in a place that lets me have some fun. It seems prudish to knock somebody down just because they say "dick" in public.
- gorkonsine 9y ago
  You really think female coworkers want to hear about your sexual organs at work? You're exactly like the men in the article, and everything that's wrong with this industry. I guess I've somehow managed to avoid working with unprofessional sexists like you.
  - qb45 9y ago
    There are no female coworkers on an all-male team, you just rejected such jokes on principle. And no, I'm not from SV. I think many developers from all over the world, particularly of the sort hanging out at HN, will consider your stance somewhat crazy.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- mac01021 9y ago
  It's not being prudish. It's just that to be amused by such a line seems puerile.

jonny_eh 9y ago

> Are we just not allowed to talk about genitalia? Yes. It's highly unprofessional.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Are we just not allowed to talk about genitalia? In a work environment, if there isn't a solid work-related need to make a literal (not metaphorical) reference to genitalia, it's a good idea not to refer to genitalia. I wouldn't say “not allowed”, but it wouldn't be the worst idea to treat it that way. > As a guy, this line was pretty funny, and I could see myself saying it (on an all male team). I As a guy, this line is the kind of thing I would have found funny the year I started high school, but found obnoxious by the time I finished. > I guess as a baseline rule it's inappropriate, sure, but he's not being suggestive or soliciting. Perhaps, but while those things would make it more inappropriate, there absence doesn't make it appropriate. > As described, it's obviously a joke. Sure, but being intended as a joke doesn't make it appropriate either. Particular jokes, despite being jokes, can be inappropriate for work.

greglindahl 9y ago

As a man, even on an all-male team, I don't want to hear that sort of thing. And it doesn't help if it's intended to be a joke.

root_axis 9y ago

Nah man, we don't talk about our genitals at work, that's just basic level professionalism. Also, do you really think that's a funny line? To me, it sounds like the type of joke where the room rolls their eyes and cringes. It's not at all clever or original, it's the type of joke made by people who think they're funny but everyone actually thinks they're annoying. I mean shit, at least make some kind of allusion to your genital size through inference, just coming out and saying "LOOK AT THIS BIG THING, MY DICK IS THE SAME SIZE AS THE BIG THING LOL" is about is unfunny as it gets.

pas 9y ago
I have teammates and we curse/swear/foulmouth/trashtalk like a deployed infantry unit, but sometimes we have clients/partners/friends over, and we somehow make it through without any fucks or other expeltives. Pretty magical, huh? It's social aptitude, some people just have less of it. (No wonder they hadn't become lawyers, doctors, politicians.) Basic rule is try to accomodate others if it's no problem for you. If it is, discuss it, and settle on the professional/formal way if others feel your preferences are too far from theirs. Constantly monitor others' well being. For most people it's automatic, for some autists it's literally impossible. Again, it's a safe default to be formal/professional, and then ease up, if all parties feel okay with that.
- root_axis 9y ago
  If we lived in a world where everyone was capable of assessing and respecting appropriate boundaries we wouldn't need professional standards at all, the entire point of professionalism is to remove the ambiguity so that these types of issues can be avoided. The swearing/foulmouth/trashtalk culture does not scale, you need to be able to bring on new employees and not worry about them getting cursed out because someone misjudged their comfort levels; and contrary to what you seem to be implying, you don't need to be autistic to misjudge someone's comfort levels, people are complicated and at some point, someone will get it wrong, and then you have a ton of wasted productivity while harmless jokes become office drama. Also, there is a big distinction between an environment where moderate but restrained use of profanity is accepted as normal adult language and an environment where your co-workers are discussing their genitals and other sexual topics.

tzs 9y ago

If a coworker says "Our app is huge, like my dick", I'd say that gives his implicit consent for others to use his dick for comparisons, at least for a while: "The bug was just a small one, like <coworker>'s dick". "We missed processing the event because it came too soon, like <coworker>'s dick". "Dammit...I need to reset this router and don't have a pin to poke the reset hole. <Coworker>, can you use your dick to do it for me?" Being the butt of dick jokes for a week (especially if some of these making them are women) will probably strongly discourage <coworker> from making future comparisons to his own dick.

tyrw 9y ago
This is a truly terrible idea
flukus 9y ago
This used to be acceptable in many smaller places, even ones with women because it was a much harder burn coming from them. These days you have to just go to work and avoided any sort of socializing or non-work related discussion, keep work life and social life completely segregated and hope that's enough (it isn't always). This is the world political correctness (or professionalism if you prefer) has created. Best to avoid eye contact too, someone could misinterpret that as flirting.

yongjik 9y ago

As a straight male developer who (usually) doesn't identify as a feminist, I must say: that's cringe-worthy, unprofessional, and honestly not funny at all. And thinking such a comment is funny (and acceptable) at workplace could limit your career in the future. Most good developers don't want to work with someone "joking" about their dicks at work. Well, I might have found it funny when I was 17. So reserve that kind of joke for a beer night with your high school friends. * Besides, what kind of developer wants to boast their app is "huge"?

tickthokk 9y ago

Woof, a lot of reply's to this one. Everybody's taken this to mean that I'd just go around yelling "Dick" every hour on the hour, or that I would be describing last night's penetration to everybody. Of course not. Yes you would read the room first, but I still think you should have the freedom to express yourself if you're not harming others. Just because you don't like swear words, and you hear one from me, doesn't mean that I'm harming you. People calling it unprofessional are likely browsing HN or Reddit while at work. Not sure how much that aligns with being professional. By the way, if you're not wearing a suit right now you're being unprofessional. Maybe getting your work done is the only baseline to being professional, and saying "dick" doesn't stop me or you from getting work done. To the people who don't think dick jokes are funny. I do. You don't. shrug

yongjik 9y ago
Protip: When a lot of people disagree with you, you could either say nothing, say "I might be wrong, so let me think over it," or simply agree to disagree. But please don't say stuff like "if you're not wearing a suit you're being unprofessional": that's absurd false equivalence, and the only thing it signals is that you're a person who hates losing an argument so much that you will pick up any argument you can think of. It's all fine here at HN, where only imaginary internet points are at stake, but as I have said, earning such a reputation at workplace will hurt your career.
root_axis 9y ago
> To the people who don't think dick jokes are funny. I do. You don't. shrug Right... this is the reason we have professional standards, because humor is not universal and some people aren't cool with certain sexual topics. Some people think scat and rape jokes are funny too, but just because they do doesn't mean it should be permissible discussion in the office. In a professional environment we keep sexual discussion to the absolute minimum necessary because sex is a controversial topic that is completely irrelevant to the job (in 99% of jobs).

pkilgore 9y ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw1cdRew-Zg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw1cdRew-Zg

cjbprime 9y ago

You are not allowed to talk about genitalia at work. There are literally laws about this in the US. It is mindblowing that you find this an unacceptable restriction.