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FSF assignments have had full digital support in every country and very fast since 11/2016. https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/fsf-now-offering-paperless-optio

FSF assignments have had full digital support in every country and very fast since 11/2016. https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/fsf-now-offering-paperless-option-for-all-copyright-assignments https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/fsf-now-offering-paperle... Sad to see this outdated info in the top comment.

xyzzy_plugh 9y ago
> With the advice of counsel, we can begin accepting scanned copies of assignments from all contributors, regardless of where they reside. With a small update to our assignment contract, we can finally make it possible for all contributors to avoid having to send their forms via the post. Uhh, having to scan a printed and signed document is not much better than having to use snail mail. When I see "full digital support" I understand that to mean I can use just a computer. Many other projects accept a digital signature (basically filling out a form -- in a browser). Why isn't that sufficient for the FSF?
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  For what it's worth, I do all my "scanning" with my phone camera these days. There are various apps that can even make it look like a traditionally scanned document in addition to converting it to PDF.
- throwaway287391 9y ago
  These days whenever I'm asked to print, sign, and scan a form I now just use OSX Preview to insert my digital signature, save it, and send it back. (I have no idea if there are legal issues with this but nobody's ever complained to me that this isn't okay.) I still hate when I'm asked to do this but it's vastly more convenient than actually printing and scanning a form.
  - confounded 9y ago
    This is a legit/acknowledged way to meet the FSF's requirements.
  - problems 9y ago
    I've done this using Inkscape a few times, usually works but I've had one company come back to me saying "uh no, print it out". They were in finance so maybe a regulatory thing or maybe just luck.
- gkya 9y ago
  Good god, if you don't care about the project enough to not sign a piece of paper and scan it, just don't contribute to it. FSF has programmers and lawyers alike that are also working to further computing freedom, I don't believe they are imposing this paperwork for messing around.
  - u801e 9y ago
    > Good god, if you don't care about the project enough to not sign a piece of paper and scan it. Wouldn't it make more sense to sign an agreement form with one's GPG private key rather than having to show a physical signature?
    - secstate 9y ago
      Well played, sir. Given the nature of FSF's business you'd think they'd be on the cutting edge of digital identification and authentication. GPG keys a thousand times better at properly identifying an owner than an easily forged pen-and-paper signature. For that matter, why not have a blockchain assignment process? Given what a vanguard for technology FSF used to be it's a shame to watch it devolve at the pace of bureaucracy.
      - robotresearcher 9y ago
        > Given the nature of FSF's business you'd think they'd be on the cutting edge of digital identification and authentication. The FSF is very careful about the legal system. Signed paper contracts are a robust legal technology. When something important happens, they don't want a judge to be distracted by unfamiliar things. edit: they also have digital signing in a couple of different forms. https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/fsf-now-offering-paperless-option-for-all-copyright-assignments https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/fsf-now-offering-paperle...
    - gkya 9y ago
      Would that be valid in a court? Because I believe that's where these papers are going to be used at.
- ajross 9y ago
  FWIW: the term in the industry for that is "electronic signature". "Digital" signatures usually refer to crypto. And one reason for worry, historically, is that international law for paperless/signatureless contract enforcement is sort of a mess. Wikipedia has a page here with links to various nations and their requirements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_signatures_and_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_signatures_and_law Not a lawyer nor speaking for the FSF. But it seems not entirely unreasonable to me that a conservative approach to copyright assignment would have picked the path they chose. It's just a hard problem. If you want to ding the FSF, ding them on the copyright assignment requirement. Whining about the process seems a little too much to me.

xyzzy_plugh 9y ago

> With the advice of counsel, we can begin accepting scanned copies of assignments from all contributors, regardless of where they reside. With a small update to our assignment contract, we can finally make it possible for all contributors to avoid having to send their forms via the post. Uhh, having to scan a printed and signed document is not much better than having to use snail mail. When I see "full digital support" I understand that to mean I can use just a computer. Many other projects accept a digital signature (basically filling out a form -- in a browser). Why isn't that sufficient for the FSF?

marcoperaza 9y ago
For what it's worth, I do all my "scanning" with my phone camera these days. There are various apps that can even make it look like a traditionally scanned document in addition to converting it to PDF.
throwaway287391 9y ago
These days whenever I'm asked to print, sign, and scan a form I now just use OSX Preview to insert my digital signature, save it, and send it back. (I have no idea if there are legal issues with this but nobody's ever complained to me that this isn't okay.) I still hate when I'm asked to do this but it's vastly more convenient than actually printing and scanning a form.
- confounded 9y ago
  This is a legit/acknowledged way to meet the FSF's requirements.
- problems 9y ago
  I've done this using Inkscape a few times, usually works but I've had one company come back to me saying "uh no, print it out". They were in finance so maybe a regulatory thing or maybe just luck.
gkya 9y ago
Good god, if you don't care about the project enough to not sign a piece of paper and scan it, just don't contribute to it. FSF has programmers and lawyers alike that are also working to further computing freedom, I don't believe they are imposing this paperwork for messing around.
- u801e 9y ago
  > Good god, if you don't care about the project enough to not sign a piece of paper and scan it. Wouldn't it make more sense to sign an agreement form with one's GPG private key rather than having to show a physical signature?
  - secstate 9y ago
    Well played, sir. Given the nature of FSF's business you'd think they'd be on the cutting edge of digital identification and authentication. GPG keys a thousand times better at properly identifying an owner than an easily forged pen-and-paper signature. For that matter, why not have a blockchain assignment process? Given what a vanguard for technology FSF used to be it's a shame to watch it devolve at the pace of bureaucracy.
    - robotresearcher 9y ago
      > Given the nature of FSF's business you'd think they'd be on the cutting edge of digital identification and authentication. The FSF is very careful about the legal system. Signed paper contracts are a robust legal technology. When something important happens, they don't want a judge to be distracted by unfamiliar things. edit: they also have digital signing in a couple of different forms. https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/fsf-now-offering-paperless-option-for-all-copyright-assignments https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/fsf-now-offering-paperle...
  - gkya 9y ago
    Would that be valid in a court? Because I believe that's where these papers are going to be used at.
ajross 9y ago
FWIW: the term in the industry for that is "electronic signature". "Digital" signatures usually refer to crypto. And one reason for worry, historically, is that international law for paperless/signatureless contract enforcement is sort of a mess. Wikipedia has a page here with links to various nations and their requirements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_signatures_and_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_signatures_and_law Not a lawyer nor speaking for the FSF. But it seems not entirely unreasonable to me that a conservative approach to copyright assignment would have picked the path they chose. It's just a hard problem. If you want to ding the FSF, ding them on the copyright assignment requirement. Whining about the process seems a little too much to me.