14 ms·

This post makes no mention of the macOS part of the CircleCI infrastructure, which is one of the trickiest parts of infrastructure IMHO. Tricky because Apple's

by jpsim 9y ago

This post makes no mention of the macOS part of the CircleCI infrastructure, which is one of the trickiest parts of infrastructure IMHO. Tricky because Apple's EULA prevents virtualizing on anything other than its hardware, never more than 4 VMs per host, and not for commercial purposes...

koolba 9y ago
What's the commercial usage limitation? Is that specifically for virtualization of OSX to prevent offering a "Mac On Demand" by not letting you run the OS itself?
- jpsim 9y ago
  Turns out it's two, not four VMs. From macOS Sierra's EULA[0]: > (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using macOS Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use. [0]: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf
  - orf 9y ago
    Wouldn't it be covered by c, though? It's an or condition, not an and, the way I read it.
    - e12e 9y ago
      With c) you're allowed to run up to 2 copies. It doesn't really help you run a hundred containers on a powerful server... (Not that you easily legally could, as I guess the moat powerful Mac hw available is the Mac pro - not exactly great for rack deployment). [ed: i guess you mean running os x server is an alternative to "non commercial use" - I agree with that reading. The option for nc use seems like a nod to not completely make experimentation and creative development/research entirely illegal.]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jbob2000 9y ago
Apple just needs to handle the build process themselves. Let me upload my app code and you do all the hard work. It's not like I can deploy to other app stores...
- ec109685 9y ago
  Apple supports enterprise distribution outside the app store. Like the idea though.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Email Tim and ask him for this: tcook@apple.com
seanwilson 9y ago
Apple's policy on VMs feels so backwards and it really bothers me. Apple expect you to have dedicated hardware if you want to do CI? It makes Mac/iOS projects a real pain and that's not including how much hassle Xcode only functionality is to script.
- falsedan 9y ago
  Apple are a hardware company… they don't make money unless you buy their hardware.
  - seanwilson 9y ago
    You'd think Apple would be interested in making the workflow for developers easier though so better apps would be made. It's slightly better now but I've done iOS+Android mobile projects before where CI for Android has been easy to set up and CI for iOS has been a complete nightmare.
    - y_u_no_rust 9y ago
      LOL
    - falsedan 9y ago
      I think the workflow is pretty easy: buy a MacBook & an iPhone, and load your app onto the phone & test on it for things which the iOS simulator is not good at. Don't CI your apps, CI your libraries.
      - seanwilson 9y ago
        > I think the workflow is pretty easy: buy a MacBook & an iPhone, and load your app onto the phone & test on it for things which the iOS simulator is not good at. > Don't CI your apps, CI your libraries. That's not scalable for complicated apps that you can write automated UI tests for though.
        9y ago
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tedmiston 9y ago
That's interesting. I always wondered why Macminicolo was so expensive relative to a Linux host (and how they did it).
karmelapple 9y ago
Not quite sure if I understand the question, but we've been using their iOS product for a couple years now and have appreciated their support. They upped their game last year with a key hire or two, although there were growing pains. Overall we are happy with it. I don't think CircleCI 2.0 is available yet for iOS, though, so nothing new to discuss yet.
- jpsim 9y ago
  My comment wasn't a question, but rather highlighting that a major part of their stack wasn't so much as mentioned in an article about their stack.
hb3b 9y ago
A provision they have never enforced. On the topic of QA testing/automation, it really kills me that Apple servers won't sign older iOS releases which means QA teams need to protect stock devices from accidental upgrades. The AWS Device Farm iOS devices are all jailbroken.

by jpsim 9y ago

koolba 9y ago

What's the commercial usage limitation? Is that specifically for virtualization of OSX to prevent offering a "Mac On Demand" by not letting you run the OS itself?

jpsim 9y ago
Turns out it's two, not four VMs. From macOS Sierra's EULA[0]: > (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using macOS Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use. [0]: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf
- orf 9y ago
  Wouldn't it be covered by c, though? It's an or condition, not an and, the way I read it.
  - e12e 9y ago
    With c) you're allowed to run up to 2 copies. It doesn't really help you run a hundred containers on a powerful server... (Not that you easily legally could, as I guess the moat powerful Mac hw available is the Mac pro - not exactly great for rack deployment). [ed: i guess you mean running os x server is an alternative to "non commercial use" - I agree with that reading. The option for nc use seems like a nod to not completely make experimentation and creative development/research entirely illegal.]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jbob2000 9y ago

Apple just needs to handle the build process themselves. Let me upload my app code and you do all the hard work. It's not like I can deploy to other app stores...

ec109685 9y ago
Apple supports enterprise distribution outside the app store. Like the idea though.
toomuchtodo 9y ago
Email Tim and ask him for this: tcook@apple.com

seanwilson 9y ago

Apple's policy on VMs feels so backwards and it really bothers me. Apple expect you to have dedicated hardware if you want to do CI? It makes Mac/iOS projects a real pain and that's not including how much hassle Xcode only functionality is to script.

falsedan 9y ago
Apple are a hardware company… they don't make money unless you buy their hardware.
- seanwilson 9y ago
  You'd think Apple would be interested in making the workflow for developers easier though so better apps would be made. It's slightly better now but I've done iOS+Android mobile projects before where CI for Android has been easy to set up and CI for iOS has been a complete nightmare.
  - y_u_no_rust 9y ago
    LOL
  - falsedan 9y ago
    I think the workflow is pretty easy: buy a MacBook & an iPhone, and load your app onto the phone & test on it for things which the iOS simulator is not good at. Don't CI your apps, CI your libraries.
    - seanwilson 9y ago
      > I think the workflow is pretty easy: buy a MacBook & an iPhone, and load your app onto the phone & test on it for things which the iOS simulator is not good at. > Don't CI your apps, CI your libraries. That's not scalable for complicated apps that you can write automated UI tests for though.
      - 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tedmiston 9y ago

That's interesting. I always wondered why Macminicolo was so expensive relative to a Linux host (and how they did it).

karmelapple 9y ago

Not quite sure if I understand the question, but we've been using their iOS product for a couple years now and have appreciated their support. They upped their game last year with a key hire or two, although there were growing pains. Overall we are happy with it. I don't think CircleCI 2.0 is available yet for iOS, though, so nothing new to discuss yet.

jpsim 9y ago
My comment wasn't a question, but rather highlighting that a major part of their stack wasn't so much as mentioned in an article about their stack.

hb3b 9y ago

A provision they have never enforced. On the topic of QA testing/automation, it really kills me that Apple servers won't sign older iOS releases which means QA teams need to protect stock devices from accidental upgrades. The AWS Device Farm iOS devices are all jailbroken.