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> Americans will die needless deaths First off everyone dies. Who's not receiving healthcare right now that would be ultimately saved by the government? Secon

> Americans will die needless deaths First off everyone dies. Who's not receiving healthcare right now that would be ultimately saved by the government? Secondly let's cut the hyperbole and have a rational conversation about this.

ravitation 9y ago
But not everyone dies a needless death, which was his point. It is not irrational to point out the cost of ongoing debate.
- buckbova 9y ago
  > In the meantime, Americans will die needless deaths from not receiving basic healthcare No, it's the typical appeal to emotion nonsense that got the ACA passed to begin with. Now that's going to fail before it's even completely applied.
  - ravitation 9y ago
    Making an emotional appeal is not inherently nonsense, so you will have to provide a little more of an argument as to why it's not a valid point to make.
magicalist 9y ago
> Who's not receiving healthcare right now that would be ultimately saved by the government? People not receiving basic preventative care with problems that are only going to snowball until emergency services can try to treat a much more complex situation in the future? > Secondly let's cut the hyperbole and have a rational conversation about this. You could have maybe had a point by quoting "but the market will win", but "Americans will die needless deaths from not receiving basic healthcare" is literally what's at stake. What exactly do you think the downsides of people not being able to afford healthcare are?
- buckbova 9y ago
  "Americans will die needless deaths" when they're on long wait lists for procedures because of a glut on resources when they no longer have access to the high quality care they once had when there's a greater shortage of quality nurses and doctors because of diminished pay when innovation is stifled because R&D is funded by the government
  - magicalist 9y ago
    One is happening right now, the other has a ton of evidence in every other developed country that the downsides are workable. Yes it will be complicated, and yes, even if healthcare is guaranteed to all, profit motive is still an important driver for efficiency and innovation. All of that, but it's still irrelevant to your dismissal of actual deaths due to our healthcare system as "appeal to emotion nonsense".
  - DrScump 9y ago
    because of a glut on resources Did you mean a run on resources? Or maybe a shortage of resources?
    - buckbova 9y ago
      Yes. We'll go with "dearth of resources." Thanks.
deleted 9y ago
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ravitation 9y ago

But not everyone dies a needless death, which was his point. It is not irrational to point out the cost of ongoing debate.

buckbova 9y ago
> In the meantime, Americans will die needless deaths from not receiving basic healthcare No, it's the typical appeal to emotion nonsense that got the ACA passed to begin with. Now that's going to fail before it's even completely applied.
- ravitation 9y ago
  Making an emotional appeal is not inherently nonsense, so you will have to provide a little more of an argument as to why it's not a valid point to make.

magicalist 9y ago

> Who's not receiving healthcare right now that would be ultimately saved by the government? People not receiving basic preventative care with problems that are only going to snowball until emergency services can try to treat a much more complex situation in the future? > Secondly let's cut the hyperbole and have a rational conversation about this. You could have maybe had a point by quoting "but the market will win", but "Americans will die needless deaths from not receiving basic healthcare" is literally what's at stake. What exactly do you think the downsides of people not being able to afford healthcare are?

buckbova 9y ago
"Americans will die needless deaths" when they're on long wait lists for procedures because of a glut on resources when they no longer have access to the high quality care they once had when there's a greater shortage of quality nurses and doctors because of diminished pay when innovation is stifled because R&D is funded by the government
- magicalist 9y ago
  One is happening right now, the other has a ton of evidence in every other developed country that the downsides are workable. Yes it will be complicated, and yes, even if healthcare is guaranteed to all, profit motive is still an important driver for efficiency and innovation. All of that, but it's still irrelevant to your dismissal of actual deaths due to our healthcare system as "appeal to emotion nonsense".
- DrScump 9y ago
  because of a glut on resources Did you mean a run on resources? Or maybe a shortage of resources?
  - buckbova 9y ago
    Yes. We'll go with "dearth of resources." Thanks.

deleted 9y ago

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