6 ms·

Introducing Object Storage

98 points by rsivapr 9y ago

setq 9y ago
If there's anything I've learned about object storage over the last year, it is: don't use object storage unless you need it for a particularly narrow use case of silly data volumes or CDN storage for a massively distributed content network. Anything else, forget it. It rarely if ever works properly with standard Linux or Windows tools (s3), it has a rat's nest of arbitrary restrictions which require a language lawyer to decypher (s3/iam/vpc/roles), the APIs are vendor specific and sometimes even region specific (s3), the APIs are obtuse (s3 multipart), the clients are buggy (boto/boto3), suddenly you inherit extra costs and configuration requirements if you want to do something like expose it over http (route53/cloudfront/s3), credential storage is a nightmare for distribution compared to rsync/ssh etc. Ugh. Please note I have used Google Storage as well and all of the above also apply. The only thing that is positive is capital expenditure is low.
- CobrastanJorji 9y ago
  > credential storage is a nightmare for distribution compared to rsync/ssh. I don't understand this argument. Why is it harder to store credentials for S3 or GCS than it is to store credentials for rsync or ssh?
  - setq 9y ago
    Because everything has no ownership, no standard place to put things and no logical consistency.
    - CobrastanJorji 9y ago
      I think I'm even more confused now. If you're going to have an app ssh or rsync, it's going to have a password or a private key to use that will be associated with some account, right? And if you want to use cloud storage, you'll also need a credential or a private key to use that will be associated with some account, right? What's the difference?
- chris_wot 9y ago
  Is there a stand for object storage?
  - setq 9y ago
    openstack swift supposedly but this is a slightly incompatible S3 implementation that nothing else talks. The filesystem works pretty well though ;)
    - 5ilv3r 9y ago
      Swift3 speaks aws4 auth now. The real problem is S3 clients that expect an amazon signed cert. No good way to fake that nicely.
    - tedmiston 9y ago
      Ceph / librados provides a compatible layer on top of S3 and Swift. http://ceph.com/ceph-storage/object-storage/ http://ceph.com/ceph-storage/object-storage/
- indogooner 9y ago
  I think AWS CLI is pretty handy for lot of tasks. Not sure if you are referring to which multipart API of s3[1]. There is a higher level API for quite some time now which is very convenient. Agree about documentation for iam/vpc/roles being arcane but tbh I have no idea how that could be simplified. [1] http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/usingHLmpuJava.html http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/usingHLmpuJav... Edit: Added link to high level API
zedpm 9y ago
Slowly, very slowly, DO is creeping towards having enough features to peel users off of AWS and GCP. Block storage, load balancers, and now blob storage...if you don't need managed queues or databases, you can probably save some serious coin by running services on DO. S3 sets a high bar in terms of durability and availability, so it will be interesting to see how well DO can compete, and it will take a long time to gain the same level of trust that S3 has earned.
- SamLevin88 9y ago
  Good to know. Am in the throes of choosing between both for a simple project
  - raiyu 9y ago
    VPC is in the works at the moment, still a bit too early for a release date, but the team has been on it for about the past 3 quarters.
    - tedmiston 9y ago
      Seed-stage startup here that would love to start using more of our (time limited) DO credit where our cluster requires running in a VPC. Any way to sign up for early access to VPC when it does roll out?
      - raiyu 9y ago
        Most likely we will have a similar beta to what we've done with Block and Object storage, but it's still to early to provide a time line that isn't in quarters with a marge of error of 1-2 quarters.
- Arcsech 9y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised to see DO either roll out DaaS next or partner with someone (Compose.io?) to do it. That's one of two things (the other being VPC, which I know they're working on per HN posts elsewhere) that make AWS/GCP tempting over DO for me. That said, I kind of hope it's not Compose.io - they seem ridiculously overpriced for PostgreSQL compared to AWS's and GCP's offerings.
ocean11 9y ago
There's pretty much zero information on that page, so why should I care?
- raiyu 9y ago
  We roll out a public beta test with existing customers to ensure performance and reliability before doing a GA release. This allows customers to use the new product and provide feedback as well as help us to ensure a great level of service when the product goes full GA. So it's really a way for customers to test out new products early, but the specific details are specifically light so that if there are any major changes in the beta period we can roll them out.
  - fredsted 9y ago
    I think it's a little weird to say "Introducing Object Storage" when you're not introducing anything at all. There's zero information about it! Is it S3 compatible? Does it compete with S3? Does it supports static file hosting? How do permissions work? I think it would make more sense to communicate that you're looking for beta testers for an object storage service.
    - raiyu 9y ago
      Certainly the GA release will have all of that information, but given that large product releases like this are about a year of work, and part of the release schedule for us is a beta test with existing customers the introduction is basically to invite customers into the beta if they want to participate, and also that is the final step before GA release. Customers who want to be a part of the beta are using the actual product that we are developing, but we don't commit to specifics publicly incase things change, which is why it's a beta release, not GA.
ctrlrsf 9y ago
Anybody have or see pricing after early access period?
- raiyu 9y ago
  We aren't providing pricing information till full GA which is later in the year. All beta users will be given 1TB of free object storage during the beta period.
  - justrobert 9y ago
    I think the lack of a pricing model and how short the free period is (until Oct 2017) makes it hard for many users to even justify testing it. For me it seems if a developer has to spend more than an hour testing this new product they are better off using S3.
    - raiyu 9y ago
      Certainly if you are considering moving a production workload, then a beta test, regardless of the company, may not be an ideal fit. Object storage has been a highly requested feature by our customers and now that we are getting closer to GA we want to ensure that customers get a chance to use the product and provide feedback on usability, bugs, performance, and etc.
      - justrobert 9y ago
        I wasn't even discussing moving production environments, just the beta test seems to highly favor DO in terms of cost. But that is fine, if enough users are willing to front the cost of testing.
pramodliv1 9y ago
I wonder what technology they use under the hood. Ceph? GlusterFS? Custom software?
- safeharbourio 9y ago
  they chose to make their own stack afew years ago instead of going with the already available and business friendly openstack, going by the same reasoning and the long amount of time they took to reach here, it highly likely to be a custom thing.
  - pinewurst 9y ago
    If OpenStack is "business-friendly" then it's very particular about who its friends are.
    - zuzzurro 9y ago
      Can you expand?
      - pinewurst 9y ago
        My comment was a play on an old joke about Unix. My personal experience with OpenStack is that it's a moving target, complex and unstable, a combination of over- and under- engineering. The two large corporations that I know using it have required almost superhuman effort to keep their OpenStack environments up and running.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - raiyu 9y ago
      We started writing code for DO in the summer of 2011, we evaluated OpenStack at the time but felt there were four major problems. 1 - First was that it didn't really work. You could stand it up but DHCP licenses would fail, your VMs would go down, it just wasn't quite stable. 2 - Naively we thought it was a bit too complicated. Sometimes early on being naive is great and we certainly made a more simple system ourselves, however as time went on we realized, that our backend was beginning to resemble OpenStack in complexity, but we would still have more flexibility in hiding that complexity from our end users. 3 - OpenStack is designed for organizations but not necessarily to be multi-tenant. Taking any software and making it multi-tenant for different customers is a large effort, so coupling that with OpenStack not being mature, just seemed like a lot of effort to put into it. 4 - It wasn't really Open Source the way we were used to it. We were used to organic open source efforts by single developers or teams of developers that naturally grew and developed over time. OpenStack just looked like it was very much "corporate" sponsored open source, which wasn't something we felt comfortable putting our faith into.
sandeep048 9y ago
Incase anyone missed the recent cloud firewall announcement https://blog.digitalocean.com/cloud-firewalls-secure-droplets-by-default/ https://blog.digitalocean.com/cloud-firewalls-secure-droplet... This might be possible because of the advances in software defined networking. Cloud firewall removes the hassles of setting up complex iptables in the name of network security and frees those extra cpu cycles and memory utilization. DigitalOcean is getting better at solving common VPS use cases. I like it :)
megamindbrian 9y ago
Um. Ok, something is wrong with your UI. There is no options to use Object Storage after signing up and required to enter a credit card. The drop down menu font is blurry. Support page takes about 30 seconds to load.
- raiyu 9y ago
  This is an invitation for beta access, you sign up to request access and then and invitation to be a part of the beta access will be emailed separately.
  - megamindbrian 9y ago
    I already cancelled my account.
    - Tostino 9y ago
      I'm sure they're mourning the loss of you as a "customer".
acrosync 9y ago
I'm the developer of Duplicacy (https://github.com/gilbertchen/duplicacy https://github.com/gilbertchen/duplicacy), a new generation cloud backup tool based on the idea of Lock-Free Deduplication(https://github.com/gilbertchen/duplicacy/blob/master/DESIGN.md https://github.com/gilbertchen/duplicacy/blob/master/DESIGN....). Currently Duplicacy supports many cloud storages (S3, Azure, GCP, B2, etc), and I would be very interested to build one for DO Object Storage. Is it possible to get early developer access to the API?

98 points by rsivapr 9y ago

setq 9y ago

If there's anything I've learned about object storage over the last year, it is: don't use object storage unless you need it for a particularly narrow use case of silly data volumes or CDN storage for a massively distributed content network. Anything else, forget it. It rarely if ever works properly with standard Linux or Windows tools (s3), it has a rat's nest of arbitrary restrictions which require a language lawyer to decypher (s3/iam/vpc/roles), the APIs are vendor specific and sometimes even region specific (s3), the APIs are obtuse (s3 multipart), the clients are buggy (boto/boto3), suddenly you inherit extra costs and configuration requirements if you want to do something like expose it over http (route53/cloudfront/s3), credential storage is a nightmare for distribution compared to rsync/ssh etc. Ugh. Please note I have used Google Storage as well and all of the above also apply. The only thing that is positive is capital expenditure is low.

CobrastanJorji 9y ago
> credential storage is a nightmare for distribution compared to rsync/ssh. I don't understand this argument. Why is it harder to store credentials for S3 or GCS than it is to store credentials for rsync or ssh?
- setq 9y ago
  Because everything has no ownership, no standard place to put things and no logical consistency.
  - CobrastanJorji 9y ago
    I think I'm even more confused now. If you're going to have an app ssh or rsync, it's going to have a password or a private key to use that will be associated with some account, right? And if you want to use cloud storage, you'll also need a credential or a private key to use that will be associated with some account, right? What's the difference?
chris_wot 9y ago
Is there a stand for object storage?
- setq 9y ago
  openstack swift supposedly but this is a slightly incompatible S3 implementation that nothing else talks. The filesystem works pretty well though ;)
  - 5ilv3r 9y ago
    Swift3 speaks aws4 auth now. The real problem is S3 clients that expect an amazon signed cert. No good way to fake that nicely.
  - tedmiston 9y ago
    Ceph / librados provides a compatible layer on top of S3 and Swift. http://ceph.com/ceph-storage/object-storage/ http://ceph.com/ceph-storage/object-storage/
indogooner 9y ago
I think AWS CLI is pretty handy for lot of tasks. Not sure if you are referring to which multipart API of s3[1]. There is a higher level API for quite some time now which is very convenient. Agree about documentation for iam/vpc/roles being arcane but tbh I have no idea how that could be simplified. [1] http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/usingHLmpuJava.html http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/usingHLmpuJav... Edit: Added link to high level API

zedpm 9y ago

Slowly, very slowly, DO is creeping towards having enough features to peel users off of AWS and GCP. Block storage, load balancers, and now blob storage...if you don't need managed queues or databases, you can probably save some serious coin by running services on DO. S3 sets a high bar in terms of durability and availability, so it will be interesting to see how well DO can compete, and it will take a long time to gain the same level of trust that S3 has earned.

SamLevin88 9y ago
Good to know. Am in the throes of choosing between both for a simple project
- raiyu 9y ago
  VPC is in the works at the moment, still a bit too early for a release date, but the team has been on it for about the past 3 quarters.
  - tedmiston 9y ago
    Seed-stage startup here that would love to start using more of our (time limited) DO credit where our cluster requires running in a VPC. Any way to sign up for early access to VPC when it does roll out?
    - raiyu 9y ago
      Most likely we will have a similar beta to what we've done with Block and Object storage, but it's still to early to provide a time line that isn't in quarters with a marge of error of 1-2 quarters.
Arcsech 9y ago
I wouldn't be surprised to see DO either roll out DaaS next or partner with someone (Compose.io?) to do it. That's one of two things (the other being VPC, which I know they're working on per HN posts elsewhere) that make AWS/GCP tempting over DO for me. That said, I kind of hope it's not Compose.io - they seem ridiculously overpriced for PostgreSQL compared to AWS's and GCP's offerings.

ocean11 9y ago

There's pretty much zero information on that page, so why should I care?

raiyu 9y ago
We roll out a public beta test with existing customers to ensure performance and reliability before doing a GA release. This allows customers to use the new product and provide feedback as well as help us to ensure a great level of service when the product goes full GA. So it's really a way for customers to test out new products early, but the specific details are specifically light so that if there are any major changes in the beta period we can roll them out.
- fredsted 9y ago
  I think it's a little weird to say "Introducing Object Storage" when you're not introducing anything at all. There's zero information about it! Is it S3 compatible? Does it compete with S3? Does it supports static file hosting? How do permissions work? I think it would make more sense to communicate that you're looking for beta testers for an object storage service.
  - raiyu 9y ago
    Certainly the GA release will have all of that information, but given that large product releases like this are about a year of work, and part of the release schedule for us is a beta test with existing customers the introduction is basically to invite customers into the beta if they want to participate, and also that is the final step before GA release. Customers who want to be a part of the beta are using the actual product that we are developing, but we don't commit to specifics publicly incase things change, which is why it's a beta release, not GA.

ctrlrsf 9y ago

Anybody have or see pricing after early access period?

raiyu 9y ago
We aren't providing pricing information till full GA which is later in the year. All beta users will be given 1TB of free object storage during the beta period.
- justrobert 9y ago
  I think the lack of a pricing model and how short the free period is (until Oct 2017) makes it hard for many users to even justify testing it. For me it seems if a developer has to spend more than an hour testing this new product they are better off using S3.
  - raiyu 9y ago
    Certainly if you are considering moving a production workload, then a beta test, regardless of the company, may not be an ideal fit. Object storage has been a highly requested feature by our customers and now that we are getting closer to GA we want to ensure that customers get a chance to use the product and provide feedback on usability, bugs, performance, and etc.
    - justrobert 9y ago
      I wasn't even discussing moving production environments, just the beta test seems to highly favor DO in terms of cost. But that is fine, if enough users are willing to front the cost of testing.

pramodliv1 9y ago

I wonder what technology they use under the hood. Ceph? GlusterFS? Custom software?

safeharbourio 9y ago
they chose to make their own stack afew years ago instead of going with the already available and business friendly openstack, going by the same reasoning and the long amount of time they took to reach here, it highly likely to be a custom thing.
- pinewurst 9y ago
  If OpenStack is "business-friendly" then it's very particular about who its friends are.
  - zuzzurro 9y ago
    Can you expand?
    - pinewurst 9y ago
      My comment was a play on an old joke about Unix. My personal experience with OpenStack is that it's a moving target, complex and unstable, a combination of over- and under- engineering. The two large corporations that I know using it have required almost superhuman effort to keep their OpenStack environments up and running.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - raiyu 9y ago
    We started writing code for DO in the summer of 2011, we evaluated OpenStack at the time but felt there were four major problems. 1 - First was that it didn't really work. You could stand it up but DHCP licenses would fail, your VMs would go down, it just wasn't quite stable. 2 - Naively we thought it was a bit too complicated. Sometimes early on being naive is great and we certainly made a more simple system ourselves, however as time went on we realized, that our backend was beginning to resemble OpenStack in complexity, but we would still have more flexibility in hiding that complexity from our end users. 3 - OpenStack is designed for organizations but not necessarily to be multi-tenant. Taking any software and making it multi-tenant for different customers is a large effort, so coupling that with OpenStack not being mature, just seemed like a lot of effort to put into it. 4 - It wasn't really Open Source the way we were used to it. We were used to organic open source efforts by single developers or teams of developers that naturally grew and developed over time. OpenStack just looked like it was very much "corporate" sponsored open source, which wasn't something we felt comfortable putting our faith into.

sandeep048 9y ago

Incase anyone missed the recent cloud firewall announcement https://blog.digitalocean.com/cloud-firewalls-secure-droplets-by-default/ https://blog.digitalocean.com/cloud-firewalls-secure-droplet... This might be possible because of the advances in software defined networking. Cloud firewall removes the hassles of setting up complex iptables in the name of network security and frees those extra cpu cycles and memory utilization. DigitalOcean is getting better at solving common VPS use cases. I like it :)

megamindbrian 9y ago

Um. Ok, something is wrong with your UI. There is no options to use Object Storage after signing up and required to enter a credit card. The drop down menu font is blurry. Support page takes about 30 seconds to load.

raiyu 9y ago
This is an invitation for beta access, you sign up to request access and then and invitation to be a part of the beta access will be emailed separately.
- megamindbrian 9y ago
  I already cancelled my account.
  - Tostino 9y ago
    I'm sure they're mourning the loss of you as a "customer".

acrosync 9y ago

I'm the developer of Duplicacy (https://github.com/gilbertchen/duplicacy https://github.com/gilbertchen/duplicacy), a new generation cloud backup tool based on the idea of Lock-Free Deduplication(https://github.com/gilbertchen/duplicacy/blob/master/DESIGN.md https://github.com/gilbertchen/duplicacy/blob/master/DESIGN....). Currently Duplicacy supports many cloud storages (S3, Azure, GCP, B2, etc), and I would be very interested to build one for DO Object Storage. Is it possible to get early developer access to the API?