11 ms·

Don't Use Raspberry Pi for Everything

51 points by webtechgal 9y ago

webtechgal 9y ago
One point that caught my eye is: "Linux enthusiasts perpetually claim that this year is the year that Linux will finally make headway into the desktop for the everyday user — but it never has and never will." I guess the author has a (much coveted) crystal ball.
- metalliqaz 9y ago
  Oh stop it. Is anyone seriously expecting Linux to take over the desktop anymore? Ubuntu is embedded in Windows now for cripes sakes! Be happy with the world's servers and cell phones.
  - aplummer 9y ago
    Difference between "never will" emphasised and "likely never will"
    - metalliqaz 9y ago
      I'm afraid I'm not able to discern your meaning from that little snippet, but... I am willing to go on record now as saying "never will". It hasn't happened yet and the desktop is already dying. The mobile space is the juggernaut now and through Android, Linux is the biggest player.
      - aqsalose 9y ago
        >the desktop is already dying. I once heard a joke that the Year of the Linux Desktop will be when the Linux users are the only desktop users left.
      - flukus 9y ago
        In what way is the desktop dying?
  - yellowapple 9y ago
    The closest thing to a "Year of the Linux Desktop" is the growing popularity of ChromeOS. Nowhere near rivaling Windows, sure, but not entirely obscure either, and certainly not with a "steep learning curve" (come on MakeUseOf; it ain't 2005 anymore, you can cool it with the tired "Linux is hard to use" crap).
    - freehunter 9y ago
      The Linux systems that get brought up in these arguments have a lot of non-default helper programs that obfuscate the underlying OS and remove really any reason to be using Linux in the first place other than it's free and it runs on everything. I mean, yeah Android is nice. And it technically runs Linux. But so does my wifi router... just because I plugged it in and logged into the web interface doesn't mean I can, with a straight face, claim that I am a Linux user. Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user?
      - bittermang 9y ago
        > Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user? That's the attitude that keeps Year of the Linux [whatever] from happening. Just because you haven't recompiled your kernel to get some odd library working doesn't mean you're not a Linux user. The idea of a true Linux user is a fallacy in league with there being no true Scotsmen.
        squeaky-clean 9y ago
        > That's the attitude that keeps Year of the Linux [whatever] from happening. I don't think it's the attitude stopping it. I think it's that ChromeOS has a 0.82% market share and other Linux distros have a 1.66% market share, while Windows and Mac make up 95% http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/ http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/
        freehunter 9y ago
justforFranz 9y ago
The author's points are valid. However, there's no recognition of the tremendous marketing, documentation, training, community & ecosystem surrounding the platform. These things are real, they are as real as any code that's written. They are as real as any hardware. So yes, the Raspberry Pi is a great, fantastic introduction into this IOT world. The security problems are real, that should be the first thing attended to. And then yes, once you get the basics down it should be easy to move to a better platform/device/doohicky.
- wmeredith 9y ago
  Now take this comment and insert WordPress instead of Raspberry Pi :) Ubiquity and ease-of-use will win over security.
  - freehunter 9y ago
    My job is trying to get ambivalent people to take security seriously, and I'd like to amend your statement. Ubiquity and ease-of-use will win over security as long as security professionals insist on cumbersome practices. Nonsensical password complexity rules. The absolutely asinine technology we have to encrypt emails. Third-party antivirus software. Patches forcing a reboot (hell, patches needing a reboot). Encryption being an add-on or an option. Bundling spyware and adware with brand new machines in order to reduce their sticker price. Let's Encrypt changed the world by making SSL certs as easy as they could ever be. That's a very positive step. Likewise, no one has to wonder if their iPhone is infected with malware. They just use it, without any security training at all. Developers use PaaS because patching is hard and you never know if it's going to break a production system. Now it's someone else's problem. What wins security is making it harder to not be secure. Wordpress is still a long way from that ideal.
    - adrianratnapala 9y ago
      Yep. One of the most annoying habits of computer professionals when talking about security is how we object to every idea by showing how a stupid/lazy end-user could render it useless. It's not that users will never do that: it's that users can't get into secure habits if we paralyse ourselves into not providing reasonable tools.
nategri 9y ago
"Dongles, Dongles Everywhere" Straw men, straw men everywhere!
titanomachy 9y ago
This article referenced the ESP8266 (specifically NodeMCU configuration) as a cheap alternative for WiFi IOT projects that don't warrant the Pi's complexity. I've played with this chip and was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to get it working. The bare chips can be had for a couple of dollars, or $15 for a development board which supports USB flashing. Don't cheap out on the dev board, the cheapest ones use a shitty USB-serial chip and it was a headache to get the drivers working. The adafruit one worked out of the box.
- Cymen 9y ago
  I really love the Wemos D1 mini. It fits in a standard breadboard with space for a row of pins on each side. It's only $4 plus shipping from Wemos: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/D1-mini-Mini-NodeMcu-4M-bytes-Lua-WIFI-Internet-of-Things-development-board-based-ESP8266/1331105_32529101036.html https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/D1-mini-Mini-NodeMc... For anyone thinking about trying ESP8266 programming, it's a great way to start. For my one-of projects, I just put a whole D1 mini in and don't worry about trying to optimize it to less components (why bother at $4/board?). Just order at least a handful as shipping is slow.
joshstrange 9y ago
I found the tangent into running linux on the RasPi a little odd... I agree for IoT you probably don't need a RasPi but I love mine for RasPlex.
aqsalose 9y ago
The hardware limitations and the "danger of server maintenance" points are valid. Only that >That ever-so-slight delay between hitting a key and having it appear on screen will eventually wear you down. You don't need to run a full blown desktop. TTY is snappy enough on my model 2B. It's a great "learn to hack stuff on a cheap small computer" platform for my nephew (if I had a nephew [1]), and that's how it is advertised. [1] On the other hand, I wonder how many RasPi users buy the thing because they wish they would have had it when they were of the age to be someone's nephew.
- copperx 9y ago
  I use my Raspberry Pi as an always-on Emacs computer; all on a framebuffer. It's very refreshing to be able to turn on a monitor and be able to write a journal entry or manage a to-do list and then commit and push to a remote git repository. There's nothing to distract you besides M-x tetris. I once considered buying an AlphaSmart Dana for this purpose, but you can't beat Emacs's keybindings (or vi's, if that's your thing).
RaspPiIdiote 9y ago
"Don’t Spend $40 to Flash an LED Over the Web" The new Pi Zero W's are $9 and the include wifi. I used to use arduinios or MSPs for things because i didnt want to "waste" a full pi. But I mean, $4 savings with these NodeMCUs? vs. the platform I already know how to use that's a normal computer that happens to have trivially easy to use IO pins? For one-off type projects i just don't see how it's worth it for me. I'd rather spend the four bucks and skip ahead to the interesting part of the project. Imho the better thing to consider w/ pi is that even the Pi Zero W consumes a decent amount of power. So for some projects, that really matters.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
  You might compare the $9 figure with $1 for digispark clones, or $2-3 for nano clones. That said, I basically agree.
soneil 9y ago
#1 is an interesting point. Use a $5 nodemcu instead of a $9 pi. Not only do you save $4, but you get a free introduction to the world of horrible ssl implementations!
ChiliDogSwirl 9y ago
"To start with, it runs Linux, which has a steep learning curve associated with it and isn’t suited to beginners." I couldn't take the article seriously after this. "Beginners" click icons and run applications. This works under Linux like any other OS. Anything more complex than that isn't going to be done by a "beginner" no matter what OS you're using.
jeffehobbs 9y ago
This article does not really need to exist.
nine_k 9y ago
Using an RPi for everything is indeed not a good idea! It's a poor choice for e.g a HPC server of a 10G router. Not using RPi for anything is not a good idea either, it seems. The RPi (and C.H.I.P., Arduino, etc) have a rather well-defined sweet spot: small-scale hobby projects and study. At this niche, they are a good value for the money (because tools, books, community, etc).
voidr 9y ago
> It’s Dangerously Insecure (In the Wrong Hands) Just like any other programmable internet connected device. > A Mini-PC or Tablet Would Probably Be Better How does this solve the security problem mentioned above? IMHO it actually makes it worse, because you are now connecting an even more powerful machine. > Never open your Pi as a public facing server. What if the purpose of my Pi is to be a public facing server? > This is true of every website regardless of where it’s hosted, but it’s particularly problematic for the Raspberry Pi, which tends to be set up by hobbyists who aren’t intimately familiar with best security practices. It is easier to install a web server and misconfigure security on a typical desktop machine than it is on a Raspberry. It feels that the author has a condescending view on raspberry hobbyists that is not backed up by any facts.

51 points by webtechgal 9y ago

One point that caught my eye is: "Linux enthusiasts perpetually claim that this year is the year that Linux will finally make headway into the desktop for the everyday user — but it never has and never will." I guess the author has a (much coveted) crystal ball.

metalliqaz 9y ago
Oh stop it. Is anyone seriously expecting Linux to take over the desktop anymore? Ubuntu is embedded in Windows now for cripes sakes! Be happy with the world's servers and cell phones.
- aplummer 9y ago
  Difference between "never will" emphasised and "likely never will"
  - metalliqaz 9y ago
    I'm afraid I'm not able to discern your meaning from that little snippet, but... I am willing to go on record now as saying "never will". It hasn't happened yet and the desktop is already dying. The mobile space is the juggernaut now and through Android, Linux is the biggest player.
    - aqsalose 9y ago
      >the desktop is already dying. I once heard a joke that the Year of the Linux Desktop will be when the Linux users are the only desktop users left.
    - flukus 9y ago
      In what way is the desktop dying?
- yellowapple 9y ago
  The closest thing to a "Year of the Linux Desktop" is the growing popularity of ChromeOS. Nowhere near rivaling Windows, sure, but not entirely obscure either, and certainly not with a "steep learning curve" (come on MakeUseOf; it ain't 2005 anymore, you can cool it with the tired "Linux is hard to use" crap).
  - freehunter 9y ago
    The Linux systems that get brought up in these arguments have a lot of non-default helper programs that obfuscate the underlying OS and remove really any reason to be using Linux in the first place other than it's free and it runs on everything. I mean, yeah Android is nice. And it technically runs Linux. But so does my wifi router... just because I plugged it in and logged into the web interface doesn't mean I can, with a straight face, claim that I am a Linux user. Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user?
    - bittermang 9y ago
      > Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user? That's the attitude that keeps Year of the Linux [whatever] from happening. Just because you haven't recompiled your kernel to get some odd library working doesn't mean you're not a Linux user. The idea of a true Linux user is a fallacy in league with there being no true Scotsmen.
      - squeaky-clean 9y ago
        > That's the attitude that keeps Year of the Linux [whatever] from happening. I don't think it's the attitude stopping it. I think it's that ChromeOS has a 0.82% market share and other Linux distros have a 1.66% market share, while Windows and Mac make up 95% http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/ http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/
      - freehunter 9y ago

justforFranz 9y ago

The author's points are valid. However, there's no recognition of the tremendous marketing, documentation, training, community & ecosystem surrounding the platform. These things are real, they are as real as any code that's written. They are as real as any hardware. So yes, the Raspberry Pi is a great, fantastic introduction into this IOT world. The security problems are real, that should be the first thing attended to. And then yes, once you get the basics down it should be easy to move to a better platform/device/doohicky.

wmeredith 9y ago
Now take this comment and insert WordPress instead of Raspberry Pi :) Ubiquity and ease-of-use will win over security.
- freehunter 9y ago
  My job is trying to get ambivalent people to take security seriously, and I'd like to amend your statement. Ubiquity and ease-of-use will win over security as long as security professionals insist on cumbersome practices. Nonsensical password complexity rules. The absolutely asinine technology we have to encrypt emails. Third-party antivirus software. Patches forcing a reboot (hell, patches needing a reboot). Encryption being an add-on or an option. Bundling spyware and adware with brand new machines in order to reduce their sticker price. Let's Encrypt changed the world by making SSL certs as easy as they could ever be. That's a very positive step. Likewise, no one has to wonder if their iPhone is infected with malware. They just use it, without any security training at all. Developers use PaaS because patching is hard and you never know if it's going to break a production system. Now it's someone else's problem. What wins security is making it harder to not be secure. Wordpress is still a long way from that ideal.
  - adrianratnapala 9y ago
    Yep. One of the most annoying habits of computer professionals when talking about security is how we object to every idea by showing how a stupid/lazy end-user could render it useless. It's not that users will never do that: it's that users can't get into secure habits if we paralyse ourselves into not providing reasonable tools.

nategri 9y ago

"Dongles, Dongles Everywhere" Straw men, straw men everywhere!

titanomachy 9y ago

This article referenced the ESP8266 (specifically NodeMCU configuration) as a cheap alternative for WiFi IOT projects that don't warrant the Pi's complexity. I've played with this chip and was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to get it working. The bare chips can be had for a couple of dollars, or $15 for a development board which supports USB flashing. Don't cheap out on the dev board, the cheapest ones use a shitty USB-serial chip and it was a headache to get the drivers working. The adafruit one worked out of the box.

Cymen 9y ago
I really love the Wemos D1 mini. It fits in a standard breadboard with space for a row of pins on each side. It's only $4 plus shipping from Wemos: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/D1-mini-Mini-NodeMcu-4M-bytes-Lua-WIFI-Internet-of-Things-development-board-based-ESP8266/1331105_32529101036.html https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/D1-mini-Mini-NodeMc... For anyone thinking about trying ESP8266 programming, it's a great way to start. For my one-of projects, I just put a whole D1 mini in and don't worry about trying to optimize it to less components (why bother at $4/board?). Just order at least a handful as shipping is slow.

joshstrange 9y ago

I found the tangent into running linux on the RasPi a little odd... I agree for IoT you probably don't need a RasPi but I love mine for RasPlex.

aqsalose 9y ago

The hardware limitations and the "danger of server maintenance" points are valid. Only that >That ever-so-slight delay between hitting a key and having it appear on screen will eventually wear you down. You don't need to run a full blown desktop. TTY is snappy enough on my model 2B. It's a great "learn to hack stuff on a cheap small computer" platform for my nephew (if I had a nephew [1]), and that's how it is advertised. [1] On the other hand, I wonder how many RasPi users buy the thing because they wish they would have had it when they were of the age to be someone's nephew.

copperx 9y ago
I use my Raspberry Pi as an always-on Emacs computer; all on a framebuffer. It's very refreshing to be able to turn on a monitor and be able to write a journal entry or manage a to-do list and then commit and push to a remote git repository. There's nothing to distract you besides M-x tetris. I once considered buying an AlphaSmart Dana for this purpose, but you can't beat Emacs's keybindings (or vi's, if that's your thing).

RaspPiIdiote 9y ago

"Don’t Spend $40 to Flash an LED Over the Web" The new Pi Zero W's are $9 and the include wifi. I used to use arduinios or MSPs for things because i didnt want to "waste" a full pi. But I mean, $4 savings with these NodeMCUs? vs. the platform I already know how to use that's a normal computer that happens to have trivially easy to use IO pins? For one-off type projects i just don't see how it's worth it for me. I'd rather spend the four bucks and skip ahead to the interesting part of the project. Imho the better thing to consider w/ pi is that even the Pi Zero W consumes a decent amount of power. So for some projects, that really matters.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
You might compare the $9 figure with $1 for digispark clones, or $2-3 for nano clones. That said, I basically agree.

soneil 9y ago

#1 is an interesting point. Use a $5 nodemcu instead of a $9 pi. Not only do you save $4, but you get a free introduction to the world of horrible ssl implementations!

ChiliDogSwirl 9y ago

"To start with, it runs Linux, which has a steep learning curve associated with it and isn’t suited to beginners." I couldn't take the article seriously after this. "Beginners" click icons and run applications. This works under Linux like any other OS. Anything more complex than that isn't going to be done by a "beginner" no matter what OS you're using.

jeffehobbs 9y ago

This article does not really need to exist.

nine_k 9y ago

Using an RPi for everything is indeed not a good idea! It's a poor choice for e.g a HPC server of a 10G router. Not using RPi for anything is not a good idea either, it seems. The RPi (and C.H.I.P., Arduino, etc) have a rather well-defined sweet spot: small-scale hobby projects and study. At this niche, they are a good value for the money (because tools, books, community, etc).

voidr 9y ago

> It’s Dangerously Insecure (In the Wrong Hands) Just like any other programmable internet connected device. > A Mini-PC or Tablet Would Probably Be Better How does this solve the security problem mentioned above? IMHO it actually makes it worse, because you are now connecting an even more powerful machine. > Never open your Pi as a public facing server. What if the purpose of my Pi is to be a public facing server? > This is true of every website regardless of where it’s hosted, but it’s particularly problematic for the Raspberry Pi, which tends to be set up by hobbyists who aren’t intimately familiar with best security practices. It is easier to install a web server and misconfigure security on a typical desktop machine than it is on a Raspberry. It feels that the author has a condescending view on raspberry hobbyists that is not backed up by any facts.