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I noticed you were downvoted with the quickness, and I think I know one of the reasons why: "People calling it 'gorgeous' are fan boys sorely in denial." A

I noticed you were downvoted with the quickness, and I think I know one of the reasons why: "People calling it 'gorgeous' are fan boys sorely in denial." A difference in opinion does not a fanboy make. You bring up a good point with the poor notification system, but just about everything else after that is bullshit. (I thought for a moment how to rephrase that in a nicer way, but I couldn't.)

dejb 16y ago
I can't help but think that a similarly phrased argument supporting Apple and denigrating a competitor would not be down voted so rapidly. I mean 'everything else after that is bullshit' seems a little opinionated as well. > I thought for a moment how to rephrase that in a nicer way, but I couldn't. Apart from the 'fan boys sorely in denial' I can't see what's so bad about putting your own view forward on the aesthetics of the physical device. Especially if you have actually had the opportunity to see and feel it as the author implies (I don't know if that is true or not). Apple fans are notorious for assuming their aesthetic sensibilities are synonymous with 'good taste' or 'good design' so I don't see what is so bad about a non-fan doing the same. To me the pictures of the device make it look a little 'odd' or 'cold'. I'm not saying the post is hugely insightful or anything but there does seem to be a bit of a double standard going on.
- leviathant 16y ago
  There is definitely a bias favoring Apple on Hacker News, but that doesn't mean that posting anything that does not praise Apple will get you voted down. You just have to make sure that when you do decide to make a post that points out flaws in Apple this or that, your post should be well thought out - and avoid being inflammatory. Yes, these should be guidelines for any post here on HN, but you probably have less leeway when you're challenging someone's relatively established mindset. Protip: Throwing around the phrase "fan boy" does no one any good, and certainly won't help your karma.
  - dejb 16y ago
    > Throwing around the phrase "fan boy" does no one any good, and certainly won't help your karma. True but in many ways the 'definite bias favoring Apple on Hacker News' does actually validate the concept of a cluster of people that could usefully be described by a distinct term. If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur (as it appears to be) then I'm personally happy to use the term 'Apple fans' but they are essentially referring to the phenomena/grouping. Personally I'm less interested in karma than contributing to the insight-fullness and accuracy of the discussion. I'll gladly wear my -20 comments as a badge of pride as long as they do this.
    - shajith 16y ago
      > If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur (as it appears to be) then I'm personally happy to use the term 'Apple fans' but they are essentially referring to the phenomena/grouping. Please do. 'fanboys' certainly is not a distinct term that is useful to describe a cluster of people, as you say, at least not any more. Aside: Harry McCracken recently wrote a (rather long) essay on the origin and evolution of the word 'fanboy': http://technologizer.com/2010/05/17/fanboy/ http://technologizer.com/2010/05/17/fanboy/
      - dejb 16y ago
        Interesting article (or at least the first part of it). Just to clarify I did not believe that believe that the word 'fanboy' by itself specifically referred to Apple 'evangelists'. The meaning as defined by the article does however describe fairly succinctly a certain attitude that is consistent with the attitude of some Apple 'supporters' and 'fans'. The word is certainly older than I'd expected but the meaning seems to have remained pretty constant.
    - DougBTX 16y ago
      > If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur If you remove the offensive slur, the comment would end up just saying, "many people who liked previous Apple products also like the new iPhone." Without the offensive slur, it's clear that the comment is practically content free, and likely not worth saying in the first place.

dejb 16y ago

I can't help but think that a similarly phrased argument supporting Apple and denigrating a competitor would not be down voted so rapidly. I mean 'everything else after that is bullshit' seems a little opinionated as well. > I thought for a moment how to rephrase that in a nicer way, but I couldn't. Apart from the 'fan boys sorely in denial' I can't see what's so bad about putting your own view forward on the aesthetics of the physical device. Especially if you have actually had the opportunity to see and feel it as the author implies (I don't know if that is true or not). Apple fans are notorious for assuming their aesthetic sensibilities are synonymous with 'good taste' or 'good design' so I don't see what is so bad about a non-fan doing the same. To me the pictures of the device make it look a little 'odd' or 'cold'. I'm not saying the post is hugely insightful or anything but there does seem to be a bit of a double standard going on.

leviathant 16y ago
There is definitely a bias favoring Apple on Hacker News, but that doesn't mean that posting anything that does not praise Apple will get you voted down. You just have to make sure that when you do decide to make a post that points out flaws in Apple this or that, your post should be well thought out - and avoid being inflammatory. Yes, these should be guidelines for any post here on HN, but you probably have less leeway when you're challenging someone's relatively established mindset. Protip: Throwing around the phrase "fan boy" does no one any good, and certainly won't help your karma.
- dejb 16y ago
  > Throwing around the phrase "fan boy" does no one any good, and certainly won't help your karma. True but in many ways the 'definite bias favoring Apple on Hacker News' does actually validate the concept of a cluster of people that could usefully be described by a distinct term. If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur (as it appears to be) then I'm personally happy to use the term 'Apple fans' but they are essentially referring to the phenomena/grouping. Personally I'm less interested in karma than contributing to the insight-fullness and accuracy of the discussion. I'll gladly wear my -20 comments as a badge of pride as long as they do this.
  - shajith 16y ago
    > If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur (as it appears to be) then I'm personally happy to use the term 'Apple fans' but they are essentially referring to the phenomena/grouping. Please do. 'fanboys' certainly is not a distinct term that is useful to describe a cluster of people, as you say, at least not any more. Aside: Harry McCracken recently wrote a (rather long) essay on the origin and evolution of the word 'fanboy': http://technologizer.com/2010/05/17/fanboy/ http://technologizer.com/2010/05/17/fanboy/
    - dejb 16y ago
      Interesting article (or at least the first part of it). Just to clarify I did not believe that believe that the word 'fanboy' by itself specifically referred to Apple 'evangelists'. The meaning as defined by the article does however describe fairly succinctly a certain attitude that is consistent with the attitude of some Apple 'supporters' and 'fans'. The word is certainly older than I'd expected but the meaning seems to have remained pretty constant.
  - DougBTX 16y ago
    > If 'fanboys' is considered an offensive slur If you remove the offensive slur, the comment would end up just saying, "many people who liked previous Apple products also like the new iPhone." Without the offensive slur, it's clear that the comment is practically content free, and likely not worth saying in the first place.