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> I see employment relationships mostly the same way Apparently they did not. At the end of the day, the people working at the company are the ones who are do

> I see employment relationships mostly the same way Apparently they did not. At the end of the day, the people working at the company are the ones who are doing the work, and who have control of the means of production. The ex-admin's bosses probably thought they were the important ones, and that this worker was a replacable cog, but they found out the hard way that this was not the case. I worked at a Fortune 100 investment bank where this happened. Everyone knew layoffs were coming. One week after layoffs came, a digital "bomb" went off wrecking many servers. So security went through, trying to find evidence (nothing incriminating from what I heard, although they had a strong suspect) and also looking for more bombs. They missed out on finding and defusing one, because another one went off a month later. The view from the pinnacle, people counting the dividends on the checks that they inherited is that they're the job creators, and everyone else is dispensable. This company just found out that is not the case.

jjnoakes 9y ago
A person who can destroy servers is no more indispensable than an employee who can destroy a physical office.
- yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
  Yeah, a better case would be firing the admin then the site goes down and nobody can fix it.
  - hoodoof 9y ago
    Why be in a technology business if you can't deal with stuff like that?
    - douche 9y ago
      Because money. God help my company if I get hit by a bus tomorrow. Until that happens, or they piss me off enough that I go down the road, they are happy to make money off my expertise.
- dogecoinbase 9y ago
  "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
hoodoof 9y ago
Integrity is choosing to behave in the right way, even though you have the option of behaving otherwise. Therefore, to behave with integrity, you must have formulated your own set of values about what is "the right way" to behave. Every minute of every day, we all have the option to behave with or without integrity in a whole range of ways. You earn respect by demonstrating behaviours over time where you have taken the interests of others into consideration, generally people consider someone who behaves like this to have "integrity", especially when they continue to behave that way when no-one is looking. Saying things like "The ex-admin's bosses probably thought they were the important ones" indicates a childish set of values where there is a power struggle between employers and employees ........ of course the "bosses" are the important ones, they act for the business which is an independent legal entity, upon which many people depend for their lives to work effectively. If, as an employee, you feel poorly treated or otherwise dissatisfied, then the right thing to do is leave in a polite and respectful manner, even if you feel you were not treated in that way. Depending on the circumstances, if you were actually treated really badly, then the right thing to do is pursue your complaint through the appropriate legal channels. Someone important in my life once said to me "the only thing you have is your reputation". Take that reputation, defend it, enhance it, nurture it and earn the respect to grow it. Don't throw it in the garbage by smashing other people (or their business) in a childish tantrum. I admit this is hard to do - I regret many things I have done in my life, but I try to lead a life consistent with my own sets of values that I think are meaningful and I get rid of people from my life who I think don't have integrity, or whose values are different from mine in critically important ways.
- idealogue 9y ago
  This is a highly normative opinion. Your version of integrity requires you to cow to a system that has been built for the purpose of your oppression. Your beliefs in following legal channels, turning the other cheek to abuse, and failing to defend your fellow man against dehumanization are the result of indoctrination by a system designed by the wealthy to keep themselves wealthy at the expense of the many. I get rid of people from my life who I think don't have integrity, or whose values are different from mine in critically important ways. On this, however, we agree entirely.
jdoliner 9y ago
> The ex-admin's bosses probably thought they were the important ones, and that this worker was a replacable cog, but they found out the hard way that this was not the case. I don't think this really indicates that at all. Maliciously inflicting damage on the company when you're fired is very different from being irreplaceable. It makes it risky to replace you, but that's not the same thing.
- sverige 9y ago
  Right. If they were truly irreplaceable, they wouldn't have been fired in the first place since there would be no one to replace them.
paulsutter 9y ago
Yes and I know a guy who went to prison for a revenge-deletion after leaving the company. He's a really good guy and he made a mistake in anger. While I disagree with the exact outcome in that case, I also think it's wrong to regard it as heroic (as implied by your post).
samlevine 9y ago
> The view from the pinnacle, people counting the dividends on the checks that they inherited is that they're the job creators, and everyone else is dispensable. This company just found out that is not the case. The solution to this, should it become a regular occurrence, is to make the folks with the keys to the kingdom replaceable. It's doable, companies just don't do it because most people don't want to destroy their high paying and relatively comfortable careers committing felonies and getting sent to prison because they had to spend a few weeks or months looking for a new job.
swampthing 9y ago
I don't think it's realistic to expect this company to now treat their employees less like replaceable cogs than they were previously (to the extent they were at all). What is far more likely is that this company will now just have more red tape in place to ensure that this doesn't happen again.
colanderman 9y ago
> The ex-admin's bosses probably thought they were the important ones, and that this worker was a replacable cog, but they found out the hard way that this was not the case. Sabotaging servers doesn't mean you're unreplacable any more than a terrorist attack means Western culture is depraved. I'd believe you if the servers simply started falling apart without this person around, but that wasn't the case.
valuearb 9y ago
So if the company doesn't have enough revenues to afford all the employees, it's a bad guy for laying some off so it can stay in business and have jobs for the rest of the employees?

jjnoakes 9y ago

A person who can destroy servers is no more indispensable than an employee who can destroy a physical office.

yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
Yeah, a better case would be firing the admin then the site goes down and nobody can fix it.
- hoodoof 9y ago
  Why be in a technology business if you can't deal with stuff like that?
  - douche 9y ago
    Because money. God help my company if I get hit by a bus tomorrow. Until that happens, or they piss me off enough that I go down the road, they are happy to make money off my expertise.
dogecoinbase 9y ago
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."

hoodoof 9y ago

Integrity is choosing to behave in the right way, even though you have the option of behaving otherwise. Therefore, to behave with integrity, you must have formulated your own set of values about what is "the right way" to behave. Every minute of every day, we all have the option to behave with or without integrity in a whole range of ways. You earn respect by demonstrating behaviours over time where you have taken the interests of others into consideration, generally people consider someone who behaves like this to have "integrity", especially when they continue to behave that way when no-one is looking. Saying things like "The ex-admin's bosses probably thought they were the important ones" indicates a childish set of values where there is a power struggle between employers and employees ........ of course the "bosses" are the important ones, they act for the business which is an independent legal entity, upon which many people depend for their lives to work effectively. If, as an employee, you feel poorly treated or otherwise dissatisfied, then the right thing to do is leave in a polite and respectful manner, even if you feel you were not treated in that way. Depending on the circumstances, if you were actually treated really badly, then the right thing to do is pursue your complaint through the appropriate legal channels. Someone important in my life once said to me "the only thing you have is your reputation". Take that reputation, defend it, enhance it, nurture it and earn the respect to grow it. Don't throw it in the garbage by smashing other people (or their business) in a childish tantrum. I admit this is hard to do - I regret many things I have done in my life, but I try to lead a life consistent with my own sets of values that I think are meaningful and I get rid of people from my life who I think don't have integrity, or whose values are different from mine in critically important ways.

idealogue 9y ago
This is a highly normative opinion. Your version of integrity requires you to cow to a system that has been built for the purpose of your oppression. Your beliefs in following legal channels, turning the other cheek to abuse, and failing to defend your fellow man against dehumanization are the result of indoctrination by a system designed by the wealthy to keep themselves wealthy at the expense of the many. I get rid of people from my life who I think don't have integrity, or whose values are different from mine in critically important ways. On this, however, we agree entirely.

jdoliner 9y ago

> The ex-admin's bosses probably thought they were the important ones, and that this worker was a replacable cog, but they found out the hard way that this was not the case. I don't think this really indicates that at all. Maliciously inflicting damage on the company when you're fired is very different from being irreplaceable. It makes it risky to replace you, but that's not the same thing.

sverige 9y ago
Right. If they were truly irreplaceable, they wouldn't have been fired in the first place since there would be no one to replace them.

paulsutter 9y ago

Yes and I know a guy who went to prison for a revenge-deletion after leaving the company. He's a really good guy and he made a mistake in anger. While I disagree with the exact outcome in that case, I also think it's wrong to regard it as heroic (as implied by your post).

samlevine 9y ago

> The view from the pinnacle, people counting the dividends on the checks that they inherited is that they're the job creators, and everyone else is dispensable. This company just found out that is not the case. The solution to this, should it become a regular occurrence, is to make the folks with the keys to the kingdom replaceable. It's doable, companies just don't do it because most people don't want to destroy their high paying and relatively comfortable careers committing felonies and getting sent to prison because they had to spend a few weeks or months looking for a new job.

swampthing 9y ago

I don't think it's realistic to expect this company to now treat their employees less like replaceable cogs than they were previously (to the extent they were at all). What is far more likely is that this company will now just have more red tape in place to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

colanderman 9y ago

> The ex-admin's bosses probably thought they were the important ones, and that this worker was a replacable cog, but they found out the hard way that this was not the case. Sabotaging servers doesn't mean you're unreplacable any more than a terrorist attack means Western culture is depraved. I'd believe you if the servers simply started falling apart without this person around, but that wasn't the case.

valuearb 9y ago

So if the company doesn't have enough revenues to afford all the employees, it's a bad guy for laying some off so it can stay in business and have jobs for the rest of the employees?