5 ms·

1.7 GW power. Wow! That means about 1 ton of CO2 released per hour (according to: https://carbonfund.org/how-we-calculate/ https://carbonfund.org/how-we-calcula

by prohor 9y ago

1.7 GW power. Wow! That means about 1 ton of CO2 released per hour (according to: https://carbonfund.org/how-we-calculate/ https://carbonfund.org/how-we-calculate/).

dane-pgp 9y ago
For a more accurate (although still large) value for the amount of power used to secure the blockchain, see here: http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/ http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/ Tl;dr: "the electricity consumption of the network at 3250 PH/s adds up to 470-540 MW".
grondilu 9y ago
To put things in perspective: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power)
- macawfish 9y ago
  I did a workshop for artists on dimensional analysis, and those wikipedia 'Orders of magnitude' pages are amazing!
  - grondilu 9y ago
    For the lazy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Orders_of_magnitude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Orders_of_magnitude
CyberDildonics 9y ago
most of the mining is being done in china near hydro electric plants where the electricity cost is being subsidized.
em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
That is only true for burning fossil fules. Considering that the Hover Dam can generate 2 GW peak, the bitcoin network could feasibly run on renewable energy.
- koolba 9y ago
  But as a lot of it happens in China, it's more likely to be powered by coal right?
  - kobeya 9y ago
    No, a lot of it happens in Sichuan province specifically, because of the availability of hydroelectric power. Also Washington state for the same reason.
    - johnnydoebk 9y ago
      But considering the fact that the computations are useless, the energy is still wasted.
      - kobeya 9y ago
        Existing trust-based financial infrastructure is extremely wasteful too.
        Artemis2 9y ago
        If I'm correct, 1718MW over a year is over 15TWh, which if Bitcoin were a country would place it 78th in this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici... I don't think Visa uses up as much energy as a small country for processing 7 transactions per second at full speed.
        kobeya 9y ago
        I was referring to the entire finance and insurance industries which represent 7.2% of US GDP.
        eru 9y ago
        Comparing finance's shares of GDP to bitcoin hashing power is useless. The power used for hashing is at best a lower bound on how much a bitcoin based finance system would need to run. (Eg even with bitcoins, you'd still have essentially the same stock market. You might be trading coloured coins on the blockchain, but people would still need to work to raise capital etc.)
mrb 9y ago
The site overestimates power consumption by 2-3x, because it gets the estimate from BECI which is grossly flawed: http://blog.zorinaq.com/serious-faults-in-beci/ http://blog.zorinaq.com/serious-faults-in-beci/ (Disclosure: I am the author of this critic) In really Bitcoin's power consumption is ~500 MW as of 3 months ago, which is less than the amount of electricity spent on decorative Christmas lights in the US: http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/ http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/
- pkulak 9y ago
  And BC's current transaction rate is a rounding error. If it ever becomes popular for more than crime and tax evasion, that's as lot of Christmas lights. Also, Christmas lights can use a lot of power. Your example reminds me of those electric heater ads that say their product uses as much power as a coffee maker.
  - biafra 9y ago
    The transaction rate is not proportinal to the amount of power consumed.
    - eru 9y ago
      Not directly. More popularity will lead to higher bitcoin prices, and that will indirectly to more power consumption for hashing until no-arbitrage equilibrium is restored.
  - oculusthrift 9y ago
    don't worry it won't
  - mrb 9y ago
    "BC's current transaction rate is a rounding error." It is still increasing at a rate that would make most startups jealous when they look at their own growth rate: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=2years&daysAverageString=7 https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=2year... "If it ever becomes popular for more than crime and tax evasion, that's as lot of Christmas lights." It's already more popular than that. Bitcoin is no longer driven principally by "sin" activities: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2808762 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2808762 And see the nice growth in various areas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin#Growth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin#Growth
pkulak 9y ago
Really puts into stark contrast the power requirements of proof or work vs the chain of trust that everyone else uses. This is the main reason I'll never be on board.

by prohor 9y ago

1.7 GW power. Wow! That means about 1 ton of CO2 released per hour (according to: https://carbonfund.org/how-we-calculate/ https://carbonfund.org/how-we-calculate/).

dane-pgp 9y ago

For a more accurate (although still large) value for the amount of power used to secure the blockchain, see here: http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/ http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/ Tl;dr: "the electricity consumption of the network at 3250 PH/s adds up to 470-540 MW".

grondilu 9y ago

To put things in perspective: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power)

macawfish 9y ago
I did a workshop for artists on dimensional analysis, and those wikipedia 'Orders of magnitude' pages are amazing!
- grondilu 9y ago
  For the lazy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Orders_of_magnitude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Orders_of_magnitude

CyberDildonics 9y ago

most of the mining is being done in china near hydro electric plants where the electricity cost is being subsidized.

em3rgent0rdr 9y ago

That is only true for burning fossil fules. Considering that the Hover Dam can generate 2 GW peak, the bitcoin network could feasibly run on renewable energy.

koolba 9y ago
But as a lot of it happens in China, it's more likely to be powered by coal right?
- kobeya 9y ago
  No, a lot of it happens in Sichuan province specifically, because of the availability of hydroelectric power. Also Washington state for the same reason.
  - johnnydoebk 9y ago
    But considering the fact that the computations are useless, the energy is still wasted.
    - kobeya 9y ago
      Existing trust-based financial infrastructure is extremely wasteful too.
      - Artemis2 9y ago
        If I'm correct, 1718MW over a year is over 15TWh, which if Bitcoin were a country would place it 78th in this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici... I don't think Visa uses up as much energy as a small country for processing 7 transactions per second at full speed.
        kobeya 9y ago
        I was referring to the entire finance and insurance industries which represent 7.2% of US GDP.
        eru 9y ago
        Comparing finance's shares of GDP to bitcoin hashing power is useless. The power used for hashing is at best a lower bound on how much a bitcoin based finance system would need to run. (Eg even with bitcoins, you'd still have essentially the same stock market. You might be trading coloured coins on the blockchain, but people would still need to work to raise capital etc.)

mrb 9y ago

The site overestimates power consumption by 2-3x, because it gets the estimate from BECI which is grossly flawed: http://blog.zorinaq.com/serious-faults-in-beci/ http://blog.zorinaq.com/serious-faults-in-beci/ (Disclosure: I am the author of this critic) In really Bitcoin's power consumption is ~500 MW as of 3 months ago, which is less than the amount of electricity spent on decorative Christmas lights in the US: http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/ http://blog.zorinaq.com/bitcoin-electricity-consumption/

pkulak 9y ago
And BC's current transaction rate is a rounding error. If it ever becomes popular for more than crime and tax evasion, that's as lot of Christmas lights. Also, Christmas lights can use a lot of power. Your example reminds me of those electric heater ads that say their product uses as much power as a coffee maker.
- biafra 9y ago
  The transaction rate is not proportinal to the amount of power consumed.
  - eru 9y ago
    Not directly. More popularity will lead to higher bitcoin prices, and that will indirectly to more power consumption for hashing until no-arbitrage equilibrium is restored.
- oculusthrift 9y ago
  don't worry it won't
- mrb 9y ago
  "BC's current transaction rate is a rounding error." It is still increasing at a rate that would make most startups jealous when they look at their own growth rate: https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=2years&daysAverageString=7 https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=2year... "If it ever becomes popular for more than crime and tax evasion, that's as lot of Christmas lights." It's already more popular than that. Bitcoin is no longer driven principally by "sin" activities: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2808762 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2808762 And see the nice growth in various areas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin#Growth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin#Growth

pkulak 9y ago

Really puts into stark contrast the power requirements of proof or work vs the chain of trust that everyone else uses. This is the main reason I'll never be on board.