5 ms·

> even though there are better solutions for reverse-proxies out there... Apache Traffic Server to even Apache httpd Really? Completely disagree. Just look at

by ag_47 9y ago

> even though there are better solutions for reverse-proxies out there... Apache Traffic Server to even Apache httpd Really? Completely disagree. Just look at the configuration files for these vs nginx.

jimjag 9y ago
So your total criteria for what constitutes a "better reverse proxy" isn't performance, isn't lowest latency, isn't full HTTP compliance, isn't dynamic reconfiguration, or pluggable load balancing mechanisms but rather configuration files?? Sorry if I don't hold your opinion to that high a standard in that case.
- ag_47 9y ago
  You're right, we should build a CloudFlare competitor based on ATS and take over the market.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Configuration files are important. You understand that once you have to untangle thousands upon thousands of lines of apache configuration. Luckily for me, that can pay a decent rate :D In the context of load balancing, on the performance + latency + load balancing mechanism + configuration files criteria, Apache is the worst by a huge margin compared to both HAProxy and nginx.
  - jimjag 9y ago
    "performance + latency + load balancing mechanism" Maybe 5-7 years ago then yeah... maybe. Not even close today. Apache has lowest latency and faster total transaction time based on various benchmarks. It all depends on how you are using it. "configuration files criteria" Got me there. But then again, 2.4 adds a LOT of ways to even streamline that, like mod_macro, mod_define, etc...
    - user5994461 9y ago
      Performance + latency => I dunno what world you live in. Apache is still stuck in the prefork era (not that it's mandatory but it is how it works most of the time). It's not even playing in the same order of magnitude. Load balancing => Apache doesn't even support healthchecks. I won't even get into the lack of TCP/TLS support or the lack of some load balancing algorithms.
      - jimjag 9y ago
        I don't know what world you live in, but Apache only runs prefork if you configure it to run in prefork. Saying that is "how it works most of the time" is complete and total nonsense. I don't even know how to parse that... Also complete and total nonsense is the lack of health checks (which is, iirc, only available for paid nginx), TLS support and load balancing algos. I think nginx has some kind of hash LB method that httpd doesn't, although httpd has round-robin, byrequests, bytraffic, and bybusyness. Wow.
        user5994461 9y ago
        There are numerous modules and setup stuck in prefork mode. And the alternative with workers is a joke compared to the event loop of HAProxy and nginx. HAProxy > nginx > apache Of course if you compare apache to nginx, you can find stuff where nginx is lacking too. Agreed, a lot of critical features are stripped in the open source nginx. TLS = tcp with tls, not https.
        jimjag 9y ago
        "There are numerous modules and setup stuck in prefork mode" I have no idea what in the heck you are talking about. If one must use mod_php than it is recommended that you avoid a threaded MPM, but even that is no longer 100% true; you can run mod_php and Event is most implementations with no issues at all. "stuck in prefork mode" is a nonsensical phrase. prefork is a MPM. Just because something is threaded doesn't make it slow. Take varnish for example. There are tradeoffs on all implementations, that's why Apache httpd allows for prefork, worker(threaded) and event-based architectures which the sysadmin/devops can choose for their own particular case. But "Oog. Event be Good. Threads be Bad" is really completely missing the very real tradeoffs of both.

by ag_47 9y ago

jimjag 9y ago

So your total criteria for what constitutes a "better reverse proxy" isn't performance, isn't lowest latency, isn't full HTTP compliance, isn't dynamic reconfiguration, or pluggable load balancing mechanisms but rather configuration files?? Sorry if I don't hold your opinion to that high a standard in that case.

ag_47 9y ago
You're right, we should build a CloudFlare competitor based on ATS and take over the market.
user5994461 9y ago
Configuration files are important. You understand that once you have to untangle thousands upon thousands of lines of apache configuration. Luckily for me, that can pay a decent rate :D In the context of load balancing, on the performance + latency + load balancing mechanism + configuration files criteria, Apache is the worst by a huge margin compared to both HAProxy and nginx.
- jimjag 9y ago
  "performance + latency + load balancing mechanism" Maybe 5-7 years ago then yeah... maybe. Not even close today. Apache has lowest latency and faster total transaction time based on various benchmarks. It all depends on how you are using it. "configuration files criteria" Got me there. But then again, 2.4 adds a LOT of ways to even streamline that, like mod_macro, mod_define, etc...
  - user5994461 9y ago
    Performance + latency => I dunno what world you live in. Apache is still stuck in the prefork era (not that it's mandatory but it is how it works most of the time). It's not even playing in the same order of magnitude. Load balancing => Apache doesn't even support healthchecks. I won't even get into the lack of TCP/TLS support or the lack of some load balancing algorithms.
    - jimjag 9y ago
      I don't know what world you live in, but Apache only runs prefork if you configure it to run in prefork. Saying that is "how it works most of the time" is complete and total nonsense. I don't even know how to parse that... Also complete and total nonsense is the lack of health checks (which is, iirc, only available for paid nginx), TLS support and load balancing algos. I think nginx has some kind of hash LB method that httpd doesn't, although httpd has round-robin, byrequests, bytraffic, and bybusyness. Wow.
      - user5994461 9y ago
        There are numerous modules and setup stuck in prefork mode. And the alternative with workers is a joke compared to the event loop of HAProxy and nginx. HAProxy > nginx > apache Of course if you compare apache to nginx, you can find stuff where nginx is lacking too. Agreed, a lot of critical features are stripped in the open source nginx. TLS = tcp with tls, not https.
        jimjag 9y ago
        "There are numerous modules and setup stuck in prefork mode" I have no idea what in the heck you are talking about. If one must use mod_php than it is recommended that you avoid a threaded MPM, but even that is no longer 100% true; you can run mod_php and Event is most implementations with no issues at all. "stuck in prefork mode" is a nonsensical phrase. prefork is a MPM. Just because something is threaded doesn't make it slow. Take varnish for example. There are tradeoffs on all implementations, that's why Apache httpd allows for prefork, worker(threaded) and event-based architectures which the sysadmin/devops can choose for their own particular case. But "Oog. Event be Good. Threads be Bad" is really completely missing the very real tradeoffs of both.