6 ms·

Wow! I knew the Ke Jie vs AlphaGo would come one day, and probably the human team vs AlphaGo, but didn't expect the "Pair Go" (human + AlphaGo vs another human

Wow! I knew the Ke Jie vs AlphaGo would come one day, and probably the human team vs AlphaGo, but didn't expect the "Pair Go" (human + AlphaGo vs another human + AlphaGo). Interesting to see.

mtgx 9y ago
That's because Ke Jie was already beaten 3-0 by AlphaGo [1]. The new set-up will definitely be more interesting to watch. [1] - https://qz.com/877721/the-ai-master-bested-the-worlds-top-go-players-and-then-revealed-itself-as-googles-alphago-in-disguise/ https://qz.com/877721/the-ai-master-bested-the-worlds-top-go...
sharun 9y ago
Centaur chess has been a thing since Deep Blue. I think the problem their future of ai stuff is having is most orgs have no idea which of their zillion problems actually needs this tech. Hopefully this will raise more awareness.
- tromp 9y ago
  In Centaur chess, the human gets to consult the AI. In Pair Go, there is only alternating play, with no other form of communication, leaving the human guessing at the AI's plans.
- pps43 9y ago
  I thought people stopped doing Centaur chess when it turned out that human+computer usually loses to computer alone. There are still positions that people evaluate correctly but computers misjudge, but those are pretty rare.
  - posterboy 9y ago
    Pretty is nice, tell more please.
    - pps43 9y ago
      As early as 2013: http://www.businessinsider.com/computers-beating-humans-at-advanced-chess-2013-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/computers-beating-humans-at-a... Next year: https://www.chess.com/news/view/stockfish-outlasts-nakamura-3634 https://www.chess.com/news/view/stockfish-outlasts-nakamura-... And computers were only getting better since then.
      - xoroshiro 9y ago
        It's not as far as people might think though. If I recall correctly, Nakamura used an older version of a weaker chess engine (Rybka). He also tried to force a relatively equal position (since he was behind in points anyway) which led him to lose because of risky play. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Stockfish would lose to Stockfish + Nakamura or any of the leading chess players. These people have been using chess engines for analyses for quite a while now and certainly know their limitations.
        pps43 9y ago
        The key idea of human+computer is that human does strategy and position evaluation, and computer calculates tactics and acts as a safety net to prevent human blunders. A weaker chess engine would still perform that function. Granted it's all conjecture since no large competitions took place, but the mere fact that no such competitions took place suggests that the outcome probably won't be pleasant for humans.
        xoroshiro 9y ago
        My point was tat with the same chess engine, man with machine beats machine. I do see your point about position evaluation though. And yes, it would be interesting to see a tournament.
        pps43 9y ago
        I actually have not seen any recent cases when a human with chess engine was beating the same chess engine more often than a random chance would imply. It used to be the case before about 2012-2014, but now the gap is so large that a human can only make things worse.

Wow! I knew the Ke Jie vs AlphaGo would come one day, and probably the human team vs AlphaGo, but didn't expect the "Pair Go" (human + AlphaGo vs another human + AlphaGo). Interesting to see.

mtgx 9y ago

That's because Ke Jie was already beaten 3-0 by AlphaGo [1]. The new set-up will definitely be more interesting to watch. [1] - https://qz.com/877721/the-ai-master-bested-the-worlds-top-go-players-and-then-revealed-itself-as-googles-alphago-in-disguise/ https://qz.com/877721/the-ai-master-bested-the-worlds-top-go...

sharun 9y ago

Centaur chess has been a thing since Deep Blue. I think the problem their future of ai stuff is having is most orgs have no idea which of their zillion problems actually needs this tech. Hopefully this will raise more awareness.

tromp 9y ago
In Centaur chess, the human gets to consult the AI. In Pair Go, there is only alternating play, with no other form of communication, leaving the human guessing at the AI's plans.
pps43 9y ago
I thought people stopped doing Centaur chess when it turned out that human+computer usually loses to computer alone. There are still positions that people evaluate correctly but computers misjudge, but those are pretty rare.
- posterboy 9y ago
  Pretty is nice, tell more please.
  - pps43 9y ago
    As early as 2013: http://www.businessinsider.com/computers-beating-humans-at-advanced-chess-2013-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/computers-beating-humans-at-a... Next year: https://www.chess.com/news/view/stockfish-outlasts-nakamura-3634 https://www.chess.com/news/view/stockfish-outlasts-nakamura-... And computers were only getting better since then.
    - xoroshiro 9y ago
      It's not as far as people might think though. If I recall correctly, Nakamura used an older version of a weaker chess engine (Rybka). He also tried to force a relatively equal position (since he was behind in points anyway) which led him to lose because of risky play. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Stockfish would lose to Stockfish + Nakamura or any of the leading chess players. These people have been using chess engines for analyses for quite a while now and certainly know their limitations.
      - pps43 9y ago
        The key idea of human+computer is that human does strategy and position evaluation, and computer calculates tactics and acts as a safety net to prevent human blunders. A weaker chess engine would still perform that function. Granted it's all conjecture since no large competitions took place, but the mere fact that no such competitions took place suggests that the outcome probably won't be pleasant for humans.
        xoroshiro 9y ago
        My point was tat with the same chess engine, man with machine beats machine. I do see your point about position evaluation though. And yes, it would be interesting to see a tournament.
        pps43 9y ago
        I actually have not seen any recent cases when a human with chess engine was beating the same chess engine more often than a random chance would imply. It used to be the case before about 2012-2014, but now the gap is so large that a human can only make things worse.