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I guess that we'll have to come up with a way of having these workers have some kind of income. Otherwise, who's going to buy all those robot made products?
by skuzye 9y ago
I guess that we'll have to come up with a way of having these workers have some kind of income. Otherwise, who's going to buy all those robot made products?
- lacampbell 9y ago"We" ? Are you in a developing country?
- hiddencost 9y agoEarth?
- lacampbell 9y agoIt's 100% not my responsibility to somehow give people in countries I've never been to jobs. Let's get rid of the saviour complex.
- mistermann 9y agoIt may not be your "responsibility", but it may be in your best interest.
- allemagne 9y agoWhy not?
- lacampbell 9y agoBecause I'm not a 19th century missionary.
- allemagne 9y agoWho here is trying to spread Christianity and "Civilisation"? If we have the power to help somebody in another country (without, say, bankrupting ourselves or causing some other harm), why don't we have a moral responsibility to do it? Certainly we can disagree on what realistically and specifically should be done, but can agree that, in principle, humans are obligated to help other humans?
- lacampbell 9y agoNo I don't think I have a moral obligation to help people I've never met that I don't live anywhere near. I do think I have a moral obligation not to do people harm, but that's really about it. As far as helping people, I feel morally obliged to help the people close to me, and no one else. That's not to say I refuse to help anyone outside of that group, it's just that I don't feel obliged to. My position is perfectly normal and natural and probably shared by the majority of the Earths inhabitants. Global Altruism is the edge-case here. The 19th century missionary analogy is that you believe you have a moral obligation to help everyone on planet earth. Whether you have religious motivations or not is beside the point.
- ximeng 9y agoPersonally kind of bothers me that we live in a world where people are left to die from starvation and easily preventable disease. Understandable as it may be why that's the case.
- angry-hacker 9y agoYou could give away 90% of your salary, still survive and save so many lives. You need to lower your standards, you can do it right now, the question is why? - because you don't care about those lives.
- ximeng 9y agoNot necessarily - Bill G wasn't giving a whole bunch of money away on the way up. It can be rational to look after yourself first before looking after others even if you care about them. I don't think it's as binary as you make out. Certainly I feel the parent saying they don't care about people beyond their immediate circle doesn't reflect my feelings, which are rather more complicated on the subject.
- angry-hacker 9y agoI'm just saying you can make a comparison like that. From this day eat only basic food, never restaurants, you get every nutrition neccessary cheap. No cinema, no new electronics or toys. People in West have everything they need. All the money donate directly to people in need in third world countries. You CAN save hundreds of lives living that kind of lifestyle, so my question for you is why not do it? It's theoretical but you get the point. Shows "we don't care" everyone and have hundreds of excuses for it.
- wavefunction 9y agoDon't worry, I don't think anyone is asking you to do anything, and I really doubt anyone would mistake you for any sort of saviour.
- lacampbell 9y agoVirtue signal harder, there are still some people in the back who can't see how morally superior you are.
- sctb 9y agoI believe we've already asked you to please not post deliberately inflammatory sarcasm like this. It's not part of the thoughtful and civil discussion we're trying to have.
- lacampbell 9y agoWas I not responding to deliberately inflammatory sarcasm? I usually ignore it, but if it's unacceptable to reply in turn then I'll happily take a ban.
- sctb 9y agoYes, it's unacceptable to reply in turn. When the purpose of the site is to support intellectual curiosity and discussion, it's never productive to make already-bad threads worse.
- lacampbell 9y agoI actually came here to discuss tech, and meet like minded people. I think the politics ruins this site, but I don't seem to have the willpower to avoid being sucked into it. The the decision before to ban politics was a good one, but it was protested by highly political people. Honestly, at this point I'll happily take a ban. The site has turned into just another time sink to argue politics for me. Thanks.
- st3v3r 9y agoThen don't be surprised if they storm your house and take your stuff.
- lacampbell 9y agoAre you suggesting that impoverished people from developing countries who have just lost their jobs to automation are going to embark on an international journey in order to storm my house and take my stuff? How did you come up with this far-fetched fantasy? The people from developing countries who could afford to do that come from a more privileged background than I do. Migration is not cheap.
- klibertp 9y ago> Are you suggesting that impoverished people from developing countries who have just lost their jobs to automation are going to embark on an international journey in order to storm my house and take my stuff? Um, yes, exactly (modulo "to automation")? Just how many migrants arrived in Germany last year? Do you suggest they are all somehow "privileged"? And that's just the beginning! You (probably) live in a place which is geographically hard to migrate to, as you'd basically need to cross the ocean to do so[1]. On the other hand, and on the other side of the pond, we've seen hundreds of thousands of people come here on foot or on boats that I'm amazed even kept afloat as long as they did. It may look far-fetched to you, but it's already happening. It will get to you sooner or later. Disclaimer: I'm not against migrants or anything (virtue signaling!), but I feel bad that our policies were among the causes which made them migrate in the first place. I think that such policies were developed by people with a mindset similar to yours: whatever happens there it's not here, so whatever. It is not so. Whatever happens anywhere will, sooner or later, come here and sit on your lawn. [1] And even then there are people who view migration as a major, significant problem - some of them are even in positions of power.
- lacampbell 9y agoJust how many migrants arrived in Germany last year? Do you suggest they are all somehow "privileged"? And that's just the beginning! Of course they are relatively privileged. Do you think the average person from Afghanistan or Iraq or Central Africa can afford to travel to Germany, illegally? Do you think it's cheap to travel overland and pay smugglers!? The average person from a first world country doesn't even have that much disposable income. Use some common sense - the wave of illegal migrants a few years back weren't made up of the lower class, it's economically infeasible. You (probably) live in a place which is geographically hard to migrate to, as you'd basically need to cross the ocean to do so[1]. On the other hand, and on the other side of the pond, we've seen hundreds of thousands of people come here on foot or on boats that I'm amazed even kept afloat as long as they did. It may look far-fetched to you, but it's already happening. It will get to you sooner or later. It has nothing to do with sheer numbers, it's willpower. You're absolutely right in that it would be foolish to purchase property and the like from a country that doesn't even have the political and social will to protect itself from unarmed invasion. Luckily not every place is as short sighted as Germany or Western Europe in general. I think that such policies were developed by people with a mindset similar to yours: whatever happens there it's not here, so whatever. It is not so. Whatever happens anywhere will, sooner or later, come here and sit on your lawn. I've never advocated military regime change or any other such nonsense. So no, the mindset is not similar to mine. I am against aggression. [1] And even then there are people who view migration as a major, significant problem - some of them are even in positions of power. Who are you eluding to here? The Government of China, Japan, South Korea...?
- loup-vaillant 9y agoRich countries will be affected as well.
- supergreg 9y agoDon't worry, people will have credit.
- SFJulie 9y agoYou mean like in Bangladesh, people will be literally enslaved with debts?