4 ms·

Well it's a university. Maybe the president should put in some effort? Outsourcing IT is one of those things that seriously diminishes the academic credibility

Well it's a university. Maybe the president should put in some effort? Outsourcing IT is one of those things that seriously diminishes the academic credibility of a educational institution. Outsourcing IT is something I would expect from, say, ITT Technical Institute or Trump University.

dpark 10y ago
I'm not saying they should outsource. I'm saying that if you start with the claim that "the administration cannot properly value IT", the logical conclusion is outsourcing. Don't start by assuming incompetence if the goal is to argue in favor of a sound decision. Make a real argument in favor of in-house staff. Basically calling the administration incompetent is not an argument against the decision.
- orbitingpluto 10y ago
  I already did in my second paragraph. But if you need the obvious answer: Outsourcing IT in an academic institution where ostensibly the operation of said infrastructure should be a valuable topic for research means that somebody isn't thinking. Not to mention the issue of outsourcing out of country private data. There are more obvious answers also. It all depends whether you're thinking about long term success or just the next quarter.
  - dpark 10y ago
    > Outsourcing IT in an academic institution where ostensibly the operation of said infrastructure should be a valuable topic for research means that somebody isn't thinking. IT is not a viable research topic for a medical institution. https://www.ucsf.edu/ https://www.ucsf.edu/
    - orbitingpluto 10y ago
      That is the sort of attitude I would have expected to encounter from someone in the 1990s. This link is only two clicks away from the link that you provided. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2016/12/405331/ucsf-joins-multi-university-collaboration-agreement-facebooks-building-8 https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2016/12/405331/ucsf-joins-multi-un...
      - dpark 10y ago
        > That is the sort of attitude I would have expected to encounter from someone in the 1990s. This is not a rebuttal. > This link is only two clicks away from the link that you provided. I fail to see the relevance of this. UCSF literally has no school of computer science or engineering. It's absurd to suggest that they should create one in order to handle their IT needs. Also, FYI, many (most?) schools' IT departments are separate from their actual research departments. If UCSF decides to partner with Johnson & Johnson, will you take that as evidence that UCSF should start a school of janitorial studies to handle their housekeeping needs?
        orbitingpluto 10y ago
        Medicine is interdisciplinary. Medicine requires engineering skills. Prosthetics? How about that metal plate holding a femur together? You think they buy that off the shelf at Wal-Mart? Engineering is without a doubt the worst counterexample you could have provided. As for IT systems in medicine, just ignoring the digitizing of medical records, there are countless improvements that can be made in medicine at the IT level. If IT and research are completely partitioned and cannot interact, then they aren't considering the effect of IT on medicine. That means they're trending towards being a sub par institution. And your facetious J&J example is still entirely applicable. Deunionization of support and janitorial staff has caused worse overall outcomes for hospitals. Considering how dangerous staph infections are in hospitals, you've provided another stupid example. I'd much rather go to a hospital with unionized and well paid janitorial services than one saving 20% in costs and profiting off of minimum wage janitors. Your lack of imagination makes me hope you're not in charge of anything important.
        dpark 10y ago
        You think the guys designing prosthetics should be administering SAP systems for UCSF? They have the appropriate skills for this and it's a good use of their time? I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue about anymore. My comment was specifically addressing the idea that universities should be funding their IT efforts with researchers, which is in general a poor use of research dollars, but especially for a university that literally has no relevant research program or school. You're not even trying to respond to my actual criticism. You're engaging in pedantry and rambling about staph infections instead. > Your lack of imagination makes me hope you're not in charge of anything important. Your incoherent responses and abrasiveness make be fairly confident you are not.
- acdha 10y ago
  I think you're arguing it backwards: the claim isn't that it's impossible to value IT but rather that it's more work than sorting a column in Excel. The incompetence charge comes from making major changes to a critical function without being willing to first put in the work to understand those functions or critically compare the options. That's especially questionable given the context for rising costs: switching to electronic medical records. That's not inefficiency but rather a change in the business and one which is important to future success. A good senior manager would make sure they understand the implications deeply before making changes to a core function.

dpark 10y ago

I'm not saying they should outsource. I'm saying that if you start with the claim that "the administration cannot properly value IT", the logical conclusion is outsourcing. Don't start by assuming incompetence if the goal is to argue in favor of a sound decision. Make a real argument in favor of in-house staff. Basically calling the administration incompetent is not an argument against the decision.

orbitingpluto 10y ago
I already did in my second paragraph. But if you need the obvious answer: Outsourcing IT in an academic institution where ostensibly the operation of said infrastructure should be a valuable topic for research means that somebody isn't thinking. Not to mention the issue of outsourcing out of country private data. There are more obvious answers also. It all depends whether you're thinking about long term success or just the next quarter.
- dpark 10y ago
  > Outsourcing IT in an academic institution where ostensibly the operation of said infrastructure should be a valuable topic for research means that somebody isn't thinking. IT is not a viable research topic for a medical institution. https://www.ucsf.edu/ https://www.ucsf.edu/
  - orbitingpluto 10y ago
    That is the sort of attitude I would have expected to encounter from someone in the 1990s. This link is only two clicks away from the link that you provided. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2016/12/405331/ucsf-joins-multi-university-collaboration-agreement-facebooks-building-8 https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2016/12/405331/ucsf-joins-multi-un...
    - dpark 10y ago
      > That is the sort of attitude I would have expected to encounter from someone in the 1990s. This is not a rebuttal. > This link is only two clicks away from the link that you provided. I fail to see the relevance of this. UCSF literally has no school of computer science or engineering. It's absurd to suggest that they should create one in order to handle their IT needs. Also, FYI, many (most?) schools' IT departments are separate from their actual research departments. If UCSF decides to partner with Johnson & Johnson, will you take that as evidence that UCSF should start a school of janitorial studies to handle their housekeeping needs?
      - orbitingpluto 10y ago
        Medicine is interdisciplinary. Medicine requires engineering skills. Prosthetics? How about that metal plate holding a femur together? You think they buy that off the shelf at Wal-Mart? Engineering is without a doubt the worst counterexample you could have provided. As for IT systems in medicine, just ignoring the digitizing of medical records, there are countless improvements that can be made in medicine at the IT level. If IT and research are completely partitioned and cannot interact, then they aren't considering the effect of IT on medicine. That means they're trending towards being a sub par institution. And your facetious J&J example is still entirely applicable. Deunionization of support and janitorial staff has caused worse overall outcomes for hospitals. Considering how dangerous staph infections are in hospitals, you've provided another stupid example. I'd much rather go to a hospital with unionized and well paid janitorial services than one saving 20% in costs and profiting off of minimum wage janitors. Your lack of imagination makes me hope you're not in charge of anything important.
        dpark 10y ago
        You think the guys designing prosthetics should be administering SAP systems for UCSF? They have the appropriate skills for this and it's a good use of their time? I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue about anymore. My comment was specifically addressing the idea that universities should be funding their IT efforts with researchers, which is in general a poor use of research dollars, but especially for a university that literally has no relevant research program or school. You're not even trying to respond to my actual criticism. You're engaging in pedantry and rambling about staph infections instead. > Your lack of imagination makes me hope you're not in charge of anything important. Your incoherent responses and abrasiveness make be fairly confident you are not.
acdha 10y ago
I think you're arguing it backwards: the claim isn't that it's impossible to value IT but rather that it's more work than sorting a column in Excel. The incompetence charge comes from making major changes to a critical function without being willing to first put in the work to understand those functions or critically compare the options. That's especially questionable given the context for rising costs: switching to electronic medical records. That's not inefficiency but rather a change in the business and one which is important to future success. A good senior manager would make sure they understand the implications deeply before making changes to a core function.