7 ms·

I feel like I'm in prison or an insane asylum when I have to use my Mac or iOS devices after enjoying the freedom that I have using Windows all day. I could go

I feel like I'm in prison or an insane asylum when I have to use my Mac or iOS devices after enjoying the freedom that I have using Windows all day. I could go very far into detail here and list all of the extremely annoying limitations that I run into, but instead I'll respond to your vague complaints with my own. Apple quite obviously wants absolute control over their device and their software whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software. I have to have a Mac to make iOS apps, but as soon as those are no longer a thing I'll toss all my Mac stuff straight into the garbage.

woah 10y ago
To me, MacOS just seems like the best desktop UI and UX out there. I'm talking about stuff like font rendering, gestures, multiple desktops, etc. All of these things on the Mac have clearly had a huge amount of thought put into them. And since these things mediate your entire interaction with the computer, it's a big factor for me. Windows seems to be a combination of 90's era throwbacks and 2edgy4you Metro design. If they've managed to improve this stuff recently I would be interested in switching, since there's a huge tax on hardware specs with Apple computers.
- kbenson 10y ago
  How recent is recently? Windows 7 was the first windows version I didn't dread using for years, Windows 8 was a small refinement on that, and Windows 10 is a vast improvement on that. Windows 10 feels like it just wants to get out of my way, which is really nice, since for me the gold standard is a customized FVWM config I refined over a decade to be minimalist and extremely usable for work. If you haven't used Windows 10, it's probably worth at least a look (as long as you don't mind or have ways to mitigate the privacy concerns).
  - woah 10y ago
    I'll take a look. Does the ubuntu subsystem make it work like a real computer for programming tasks?
- Keyframe 10y ago
  I'm reading all of your comments here (not just yours) and I'm wondering. Do you spend that much time in OS alone? I use MacOS, Windows, and Linux each and every day interchangeably. What I do is I start my productivity application(s) and spend time in that. I see OS when I'm copying files or when I'm in shell doing shit. Even when in shell, with baboon on Windows it's more or less the same experience across. Only thing I want in all of OS' that is only in MacOS is preview. That thing is damn awesome. Everything else is invisible to me.
  - tornadoboy55 10y ago
    You can install Gnome Sushi to have that in Linux.
    - Keyframe 10y ago
      Thanks for the tip! Now do Windows!!
oridecon 10y ago
> whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software. Not in my experience. My Windows 10 automation/unscrew-up script alone is like 5 kloc. And I bet 70% of that script could be replaced if I had real control of the system, like dropping a .config file in some folder instead of having to find hidden settings with nonsensical names deep down the regedit hole. Another example, you have to use some stupid hacks to make sure there are no Flash DLLs in your pc. No matter what you do they always come back in some security update.
- snuxoll 10y ago
  > And I bet 70% of that script could be replaced if I had real control of the system, like dropping a .config file in some folder instead of having to find hidden settings with nonsensical names deep down the regedit hole. You should see my ansible playbooks for our Windows Server systems, I don't mind PowerShell per-se but it takes a lot more effort to get anything done compared to my CentOS systems where I can template a config file and be done with it. I really hope our vendors start supporting .Net Core soon, the SDK for our ECM software is the only reason we're still stuck on the full framework and having to manage a bunch of Windows VM's for our integration software...
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  5000 lines for a fresh install? That's... a lot. Is that on github somewhere?
  - oridecon 10y ago
    It's based on several scripts from Github. A lot of lines are just regex and lists (apps, services, tasks) of things to disable or remove. I recommend you do your own script by choosing what you want from each type of script. I would release my script if I was sure it wouldn't break random people's computers, because IT WILL. I'm also running Windows 10 enterprise because I want as little telemetry and things shoved up my ass as possible. Some Windows updates can change registry keys or disable certain policies. I monitor the commit log of other repos to know what I need to update, but they don't always cover everything. Feels like a lot of work but it's actually not. Here's how I structured it: - admin.ps1 --- admin-config.ps1 (policies, tweaks) --- disable-services.ps1 --- remove-flash.ps1 --- ... - user.ps1 calls --- user-config.ps1 --- disable-gamedrv.ps1 --- disable-services.ps1 --- ... Because if you're using a regular user account (like you should) you need to run 3 things: - admin.ps1 as admin - user.ps1 as admin - user.ps1 as your regular user I gave up on using runAs or any of the things recommended on stackoverflow, something always go wrong so it's easier to do it this way. For a fresh install, I recommend that the first thing you do is update everything and let Windows install the 200 apps you don't want. Run the 3 things like I mentioned, reboot, run it again, reboot. https://github.com/cluberti/VDI/blob/master/ConfigAsVDI.ps1 https://github.com/cluberti/VDI/blob/master/ConfigAsVDI.ps1 https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10/ https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10/ https://github.com/dfkt/win10-unfuck https://github.com/dfkt/win10-unfuck https://gist.github.com/sven212/5febf372aaa6e4cc1fda71ad9637e527 https://gist.github.com/sven212/5febf372aaa6e4cc1fda71ad9637... My installation is months old and it runs like new even after heavy usage, hardware changes, tons of apps and games installed/uninstalled (this kills Windows 7). Just be careful what you remove, don't ever install ccleaner or any shit. All you need is sysinternals tools. I'm too lazy to proof-read/make this shorter, hope it helps somebody.
mattnewton 10y ago
I've had the opposite experience. OSX is just weird bsd with a great window manager and ui framework. You can easily sidestep gatekeeper, if that is your complaint. The hardware fit and finish is also second to none, and runs windows just fine if that's your thing. The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine. Not to mention it is often used with some awful trackpad. I haven't tried them all but I have never seen a non-mac trackpad I could go back to.
- AlexandrB 10y ago
  > The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine. This exactly. I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. That's not even mentioning the forced updates and always-on telemetry. I'm not sure how one can say macOS is more of a walled garden than Windows at this point, at least macOS's security features will get out of your way if you ask nicely. [1] http://www.intowindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Change-Recycle-Bin-Icon-in-Windows-10-picture1.png http://www.intowindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Change... [2] https://cdn2.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3632303/how_to_open_control_panel_in_windows_10_-_settings_app.jpg https://cdn2.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3632303/how_to... [3] https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/01/neon-.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/...
  - kbenson 10y ago
    > I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. This almost reads as sarcasm. Some people really don't care about those things, and using them as examples of why you're baffled just highlights that disconnect between you and them. I don't use any bundled windows apps, and I'm rarely in the settings (and I just search for what setting I want), so iconography and whitespace design decisions in windows apps don't even factor into it for me. Neither OS X nor Windows feel as comfortable as my customized FVWM config did, but windows gets a lot closer nowadays. I had to use OS X at work for a few years and it always grated. > That's not even mentioning the forced updates It's possible to disable them, you just have to put some effort into it (it requires regedit). I think this is the right decision. If you want to disable updates and you don't know how to change a registry setting, then for the good of us all, the answer is no. The tracking is a valid concern though.
SippinLean 10y ago
My favorite thing about Windows is I can usually fix it in the Registry My least favorite thing is I have to use the Registry to fix it
thr0waway1239 10y ago
>> whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software Whatever is left after bricking it, I suppose? You do know that there were actual lawsuits against Microsoft over the Windows 10 auto upgrade right? https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Against-Windows-10-Microsoft-ebook/dp/B01IU0A2N6 https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Against-Windows-10-Microsoft-... Even assuming that issue was overblown, I distinctly remember that Catbert-style perma-nag message appearing on each login asking me to upgrade. Microsoft doesn't even deem its users worthy of a simple "Don't bother me again" close window. Let us conservatively say about 10% of the 300 million people who supposedly got the Windows 10 update didn't actually want it. That's about 30 million folks who would disagree with this notion that Microsoft "lets me do whatever I want with my computers and my software".
akulbe 10y ago
I'd been a hardcore Mac user since '04. The best thing Microsoft and Dell have going for them in the laptop space... the 2016 MacBook Pro w/Touch Bar. It was a dud. The GPU issues were the final straw for me. I thought that switching back to Windows would be a HUGE hassle. The Windows Subsystem for Linux took the pain out of it. That, and I no longer have to fight the we-don't-have-a-macOS-version of $APP issues. If Apple doesn't care about their computers, why should their users? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- cloverich 10y ago
  > the 2016 MacBook Pro w/Touch Bar. It was a dud. I thought their sales report indicated it is their highest selling macbook to date?

woah 10y ago

To me, MacOS just seems like the best desktop UI and UX out there. I'm talking about stuff like font rendering, gestures, multiple desktops, etc. All of these things on the Mac have clearly had a huge amount of thought put into them. And since these things mediate your entire interaction with the computer, it's a big factor for me. Windows seems to be a combination of 90's era throwbacks and 2edgy4you Metro design. If they've managed to improve this stuff recently I would be interested in switching, since there's a huge tax on hardware specs with Apple computers.

kbenson 10y ago
How recent is recently? Windows 7 was the first windows version I didn't dread using for years, Windows 8 was a small refinement on that, and Windows 10 is a vast improvement on that. Windows 10 feels like it just wants to get out of my way, which is really nice, since for me the gold standard is a customized FVWM config I refined over a decade to be minimalist and extremely usable for work. If you haven't used Windows 10, it's probably worth at least a look (as long as you don't mind or have ways to mitigate the privacy concerns).
- woah 10y ago
  I'll take a look. Does the ubuntu subsystem make it work like a real computer for programming tasks?
Keyframe 10y ago
I'm reading all of your comments here (not just yours) and I'm wondering. Do you spend that much time in OS alone? I use MacOS, Windows, and Linux each and every day interchangeably. What I do is I start my productivity application(s) and spend time in that. I see OS when I'm copying files or when I'm in shell doing shit. Even when in shell, with baboon on Windows it's more or less the same experience across. Only thing I want in all of OS' that is only in MacOS is preview. That thing is damn awesome. Everything else is invisible to me.
- tornadoboy55 10y ago
  You can install Gnome Sushi to have that in Linux.
  - Keyframe 10y ago
    Thanks for the tip! Now do Windows!!

oridecon 10y ago

> whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software. Not in my experience. My Windows 10 automation/unscrew-up script alone is like 5 kloc. And I bet 70% of that script could be replaced if I had real control of the system, like dropping a .config file in some folder instead of having to find hidden settings with nonsensical names deep down the regedit hole. Another example, you have to use some stupid hacks to make sure there are no Flash DLLs in your pc. No matter what you do they always come back in some security update.

snuxoll 10y ago
> And I bet 70% of that script could be replaced if I had real control of the system, like dropping a .config file in some folder instead of having to find hidden settings with nonsensical names deep down the regedit hole. You should see my ansible playbooks for our Windows Server systems, I don't mind PowerShell per-se but it takes a lot more effort to get anything done compared to my CentOS systems where I can template a config file and be done with it. I really hope our vendors start supporting .Net Core soon, the SDK for our ECM software is the only reason we're still stuck on the full framework and having to manage a bunch of Windows VM's for our integration software...
chadgeidel 10y ago
5000 lines for a fresh install? That's... a lot. Is that on github somewhere?
- oridecon 10y ago
  It's based on several scripts from Github. A lot of lines are just regex and lists (apps, services, tasks) of things to disable or remove. I recommend you do your own script by choosing what you want from each type of script. I would release my script if I was sure it wouldn't break random people's computers, because IT WILL. I'm also running Windows 10 enterprise because I want as little telemetry and things shoved up my ass as possible. Some Windows updates can change registry keys or disable certain policies. I monitor the commit log of other repos to know what I need to update, but they don't always cover everything. Feels like a lot of work but it's actually not. Here's how I structured it: - admin.ps1 --- admin-config.ps1 (policies, tweaks) --- disable-services.ps1 --- remove-flash.ps1 --- ... - user.ps1 calls --- user-config.ps1 --- disable-gamedrv.ps1 --- disable-services.ps1 --- ... Because if you're using a regular user account (like you should) you need to run 3 things: - admin.ps1 as admin - user.ps1 as admin - user.ps1 as your regular user I gave up on using runAs or any of the things recommended on stackoverflow, something always go wrong so it's easier to do it this way. For a fresh install, I recommend that the first thing you do is update everything and let Windows install the 200 apps you don't want. Run the 3 things like I mentioned, reboot, run it again, reboot. https://github.com/cluberti/VDI/blob/master/ConfigAsVDI.ps1 https://github.com/cluberti/VDI/blob/master/ConfigAsVDI.ps1 https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10/ https://github.com/W4RH4WK/Debloat-Windows-10/ https://github.com/dfkt/win10-unfuck https://github.com/dfkt/win10-unfuck https://gist.github.com/sven212/5febf372aaa6e4cc1fda71ad9637e527 https://gist.github.com/sven212/5febf372aaa6e4cc1fda71ad9637... My installation is months old and it runs like new even after heavy usage, hardware changes, tons of apps and games installed/uninstalled (this kills Windows 7). Just be careful what you remove, don't ever install ccleaner or any shit. All you need is sysinternals tools. I'm too lazy to proof-read/make this shorter, hope it helps somebody.

mattnewton 10y ago

I've had the opposite experience. OSX is just weird bsd with a great window manager and ui framework. You can easily sidestep gatekeeper, if that is your complaint. The hardware fit and finish is also second to none, and runs windows just fine if that's your thing. The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine. Not to mention it is often used with some awful trackpad. I haven't tried them all but I have never seen a non-mac trackpad I could go back to.

AlexandrB 10y ago
> The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine. This exactly. I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. That's not even mentioning the forced updates and always-on telemetry. I'm not sure how one can say macOS is more of a walled garden than Windows at this point, at least macOS's security features will get out of your way if you ask nicely. [1] http://www.intowindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Change-Recycle-Bin-Icon-in-Windows-10-picture1.png http://www.intowindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Change... [2] https://cdn2.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3632303/how_to_open_control_panel_in_windows_10_-_settings_app.jpg https://cdn2.pcadvisor.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3632303/how_to... [3] https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/01/neon-.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/...
- kbenson 10y ago
  > I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. This almost reads as sarcasm. Some people really don't care about those things, and using them as examples of why you're baffled just highlights that disconnect between you and them. I don't use any bundled windows apps, and I'm rarely in the settings (and I just search for what setting I want), so iconography and whitespace design decisions in windows apps don't even factor into it for me. Neither OS X nor Windows feel as comfortable as my customized FVWM config did, but windows gets a lot closer nowadays. I had to use OS X at work for a few years and it always grated. > That's not even mentioning the forced updates It's possible to disable them, you just have to put some effort into it (it requires regedit). I think this is the right decision. If you want to disable updates and you don't know how to change a registry setting, then for the good of us all, the answer is no. The tracking is a valid concern though.

SippinLean 10y ago

My favorite thing about Windows is I can usually fix it in the Registry My least favorite thing is I have to use the Registry to fix it

thr0waway1239 10y ago

>> whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software Whatever is left after bricking it, I suppose? You do know that there were actual lawsuits against Microsoft over the Windows 10 auto upgrade right? https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Against-Windows-10-Microsoft-ebook/dp/B01IU0A2N6 https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Against-Windows-10-Microsoft-... Even assuming that issue was overblown, I distinctly remember that Catbert-style perma-nag message appearing on each login asking me to upgrade. Microsoft doesn't even deem its users worthy of a simple "Don't bother me again" close window. Let us conservatively say about 10% of the 300 million people who supposedly got the Windows 10 update didn't actually want it. That's about 30 million folks who would disagree with this notion that Microsoft "lets me do whatever I want with my computers and my software".

akulbe 10y ago

I'd been a hardcore Mac user since '04. The best thing Microsoft and Dell have going for them in the laptop space... the 2016 MacBook Pro w/Touch Bar. It was a dud. The GPU issues were the final straw for me. I thought that switching back to Windows would be a HUGE hassle. The Windows Subsystem for Linux took the pain out of it. That, and I no longer have to fight the we-don't-have-a-macOS-version of $APP issues. If Apple doesn't care about their computers, why should their users? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

cloverich 10y ago
> the 2016 MacBook Pro w/Touch Bar. It was a dud. I thought their sales report indicated it is their highest selling macbook to date?