8 ms·

Excellent journalism - anonymous sources speculate as to what might have caused people to leave a company. Also pushes the new business-friendly narrative that

by no_wave 10y ago

Excellent journalism - anonymous sources speculate as to what might have caused people to leave a company. Also pushes the new business-friendly narrative that it's good for companies to pay their engineers less. Well done, I hope the author's boss is proud.

alexc05 10y ago
You don't feel this is a strong argument in favor of the de-regulation of minimum wage? Freeing businesses from the growth stifing yoke of employee voluntary attrition? /s Ughh... reading this is ridiculous. Do we think bankers' salaries prevent them from staying at banks? Doesn't the first sentence answer the question of what really happened? > For the past year, Google's car project has been > a talent sieve, thanks to leadership changes, > strategy doubts, new startup dreams and rivals > luring self-driving technology experts. Poor leadership & competition. Easy to point fingers elsewhere, but everything we know about motivation says that autonomy, making a difference and a whole host of other "soft reasons" are the factors that drive it forward. The people who left didn't STOP working on self driving cars. So they still love the work and are engaged by the dream of doing that. So theoretically - if Google had adapted to their needs & wants they could have retained the employees. Instead poor leadership drove them out the door.
- no_wave 10y ago
  But the anonymous sources are saying that the only problem was that Google was too generous. Clearly we should believe them at face value.
maxxxxx 10y ago
I am all for higher salaries but there is some truth to the dangers of overpaying. Give me 5 million dollars and you will never see me again. Give my CEO 5 million dollars and he'll keep going. On the other hand, give me 250000 dollars and you will have a very happy and loyal employee.
- JackFr 10y ago
  I doubt very much that you would quit after getting a 5mm bonus. I've seen some pretty ridiculous Wall St bonuses from the 90's up close. I think a more typical response would be, "Hmmm. That wasn't so hard, let's see if they do it again next year." And when they don't -- that is typically when you walk.
  - 1024core 10y ago
    > I've seen some pretty ridiculous Wall St bonuses from the 90's up close. That's anecdata. Not everyone is the same. I know friends who would quit in a heartbeat and pursue other passions (music, teaching, non-profit work, etc.) if they got F-you money.
    - pcsanwald 10y ago
      Everyone is different, and I realize that the actual number doesn't matter, but most people able to make 5MM in bonus on wall st wouldn't consider that amount anywhere near "F-you money".
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    I would quit after even less money. I would dabble with tech but no way I would ever go into an office again. Some people like CEO's genuinely seem to enjoy business but I personally don't.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    Really, because $5M seems like an enormous fortune to me. It's an amount you could stick in a savings account yielding only 1% interest and pretty much live the rest of your life with a decent lifestyle somewhere with a low cost of living. OR, you could quit your high-stress job and augment that interest with a more fulfilling career. I can pretty safely say a single $5M bonus would amount to an instant lifestyle change (namely less pressure to work) for me.
ryandrake 10y ago
You're probably right on, despite the down-votes. This is almost certainly a Submarine Article [1] pushing the tired "engineers are overpayed" narrative. Wonder who's funding whatever PR firm put it out... 1: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- tptacek 10y ago
  Almost certainly, you say! It's hard to think of something Paul Graham wrote that has done more damage to discussions on HN than his piece about submarine PR pieces.
  - clock_tower 10y ago
    That doesn't mean they aren't real. Did you see that article on cursive writing? (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12193539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12193539)
  - skj 10y ago
    The submarine piece was a submarine piece to try to get people to generally ignore the press for anything substantive and instead elect Trump as president.
  - SilasX 10y ago
    When people thought that every published article was some journalist independently deciding something was newsworthy and thus writing up their neutral research on it, they were wrong. When people thought every published article was some propagandist's attempt to sway public opinion, they were wrong. But the second view is a lot less wrong than the former.[1] "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations." -- George Orwell. [1] Didn't feel like following Asimov's pattern for the third line.
  - metaphorm 10y ago
    are you saying that the post you responded to did damage to this discussion? I think you should justify that claim. what damage? to whom? I think that your comment might be the damaging one because it attempts to delegitimize the opinion of another community member without any reasons given.

by no_wave 10y ago

alexc05 10y ago

You don't feel this is a strong argument in favor of the de-regulation of minimum wage? Freeing businesses from the growth stifing yoke of employee voluntary attrition? /s Ughh... reading this is ridiculous. Do we think bankers' salaries prevent them from staying at banks? Doesn't the first sentence answer the question of what really happened? > For the past year, Google's car project has been > a talent sieve, thanks to leadership changes, > strategy doubts, new startup dreams and rivals > luring self-driving technology experts. Poor leadership & competition. Easy to point fingers elsewhere, but everything we know about motivation says that autonomy, making a difference and a whole host of other "soft reasons" are the factors that drive it forward. The people who left didn't STOP working on self driving cars. So they still love the work and are engaged by the dream of doing that. So theoretically - if Google had adapted to their needs & wants they could have retained the employees. Instead poor leadership drove them out the door.

no_wave 10y ago
But the anonymous sources are saying that the only problem was that Google was too generous. Clearly we should believe them at face value.

maxxxxx 10y ago

I am all for higher salaries but there is some truth to the dangers of overpaying. Give me 5 million dollars and you will never see me again. Give my CEO 5 million dollars and he'll keep going. On the other hand, give me 250000 dollars and you will have a very happy and loyal employee.

JackFr 10y ago
I doubt very much that you would quit after getting a 5mm bonus. I've seen some pretty ridiculous Wall St bonuses from the 90's up close. I think a more typical response would be, "Hmmm. That wasn't so hard, let's see if they do it again next year." And when they don't -- that is typically when you walk.
- 1024core 10y ago
  > I've seen some pretty ridiculous Wall St bonuses from the 90's up close. That's anecdata. Not everyone is the same. I know friends who would quit in a heartbeat and pursue other passions (music, teaching, non-profit work, etc.) if they got F-you money.
  - pcsanwald 10y ago
    Everyone is different, and I realize that the actual number doesn't matter, but most people able to make 5MM in bonus on wall st wouldn't consider that amount anywhere near "F-you money".
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  I would quit after even less money. I would dabble with tech but no way I would ever go into an office again. Some people like CEO's genuinely seem to enjoy business but I personally don't.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Really, because $5M seems like an enormous fortune to me. It's an amount you could stick in a savings account yielding only 1% interest and pretty much live the rest of your life with a decent lifestyle somewhere with a low cost of living. OR, you could quit your high-stress job and augment that interest with a more fulfilling career. I can pretty safely say a single $5M bonus would amount to an instant lifestyle change (namely less pressure to work) for me.

ryandrake 10y ago

You're probably right on, despite the down-votes. This is almost certainly a Submarine Article [1] pushing the tired "engineers are overpayed" narrative. Wonder who's funding whatever PR firm put it out... 1: http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html

tptacek 10y ago
Almost certainly, you say! It's hard to think of something Paul Graham wrote that has done more damage to discussions on HN than his piece about submarine PR pieces.
- clock_tower 10y ago
  That doesn't mean they aren't real. Did you see that article on cursive writing? (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12193539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12193539)
- skj 10y ago
  The submarine piece was a submarine piece to try to get people to generally ignore the press for anything substantive and instead elect Trump as president.
- SilasX 10y ago
  When people thought that every published article was some journalist independently deciding something was newsworthy and thus writing up their neutral research on it, they were wrong. When people thought every published article was some propagandist's attempt to sway public opinion, they were wrong. But the second view is a lot less wrong than the former.[1] "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations." -- George Orwell. [1] Didn't feel like following Asimov's pattern for the third line.
- metaphorm 10y ago
  are you saying that the post you responded to did damage to this discussion? I think you should justify that claim. what damage? to whom? I think that your comment might be the damaging one because it attempts to delegitimize the opinion of another community member without any reasons given.