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"Anyway, I always hated manual labor and decided to make a little tool to help me scrape the posts of my competitors and publish them to my group on a regular b

"Anyway, I always hated manual labor and decided to make a little tool to help me scrape the posts of my competitors and publish them to my group on a regular basis.” Other things you must hate: morality and ethics.

humanrebar 10y ago
> I’d also removed the posts that were obviously copyrighted. I'm not a lawyer, but in American copyright law, anything published is assumed copyrighted by someone, though it may not be clear exactly who. I'm especially not an international copyright lawyer, so I can't say how typical that is. Point being, you'll get in legal trouble for doing this. You might win a lawsuit if what you are scraping is not copyrightable (raw facts). Anyway, OP might not be in the US, so maybe all this doesn't apply, but it's generally good manners to ask someone before you copy their work, yes.
- ClassyJacket 10y ago
  Same is true in Australia. Copyrights are not registered. You just automatically own the copyright to anything you write unless there's a specific reason not to. You don't have to go register it, you don't have to put a copyright notice. You own the copyright as soon as you create it.
- jorams 10y ago
  Because of the Berne Convention[1], that's how it works in the vast majority of the world. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
- mskvsk 10y ago
  > it's generally good manners to ask someone before you copy their work, yes This is what I do most of the time, if it's possible, given the environment the service operates in. I encourage people to learn about it first, and only after that to jump into conclusions.
- staticautomatic 10y ago
  I believe that in the US you don't have to register the copyright, but if you don't, then you can only recover statutory infringement damages in a lawsuit.
- brudgers 10y ago
  Google is in the US. The rest of this post is left as an exercise for the reader.
mskvsk 10y ago
Good point. I prefer to do at least something addressing the issue in the ecosystem that does absolutely nothing, though. And I'm open about it.
xiaoma 10y ago
> "Other things you must hate: morality and ethics." I'm less impressed with your own ethics than those of the OP. The OP made a tool that served a market niche in a country that isn't so wealthy and then shared the story here to help other makers. You've taken exception with one small piece of the story and expanded it to claim the poster "must hate morality and ethics". While it's a bit of a rabbit hole to get into ethics of the copyright and IP regime of the US and allies, it's worth keeping in mind that even multiple US legal scholars have expressed concerns—from Jefferson (who wrote at length about IP before drafting US law) to Lessig now. It's certainly not so clear cut as to justify vilifying those who disagree. This goes doubly so, considering the poster did this in a country that has only fairly recently caved to international pressure to "harmonize" its copyright enforcement. The OP's project was built on VK, where downloads of copyrighted videos and songs were offered by the platform itself until very recently.
- jsumrall 10y ago
  The tool OP made is neither technically challenging or interesting. The story is about what the tool was for, which is certainly not one small piece. These types of stories are great and motivational, but not when it promotes people who are looking for inspiration to turn to stealing content and selling access to it. Just because this kind of stuff is common in other countries or cultures doesn't change my opinion about it being wrong.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - mskvsk 10y ago
    Well, your opinion won't change this kind of stuff in other countries either. Your actions will, though.
    - jsumrall 10y ago
      Exactly, which is why I think it's important to point out when something is wrong rather than try to promote it as an example for others to follow. Sure, feel free to continue. Just don't come here looking for praise. edit: *praise from everyone. It seems some people are impressed. Congrats.
wopwopwop 10y ago
Some people talk, some people do.
patrickg_zill 10y ago
Russia in general has very lax attitudes towards copyright and did not even join the Berne Convention until 1995.
mnm1 10y ago
I don't see why you have to attack the article's author. If you disagree with what he does, it might actually be interesting to read why. Instead you attack him from a moral high ground you don't even hold, assuming he is doing something immoral or unethical when he simply disagrees with your values. Someone who disagrees with your values isn't necessarily immoral or unethical just because they disagree with you.
Veratyr 10y ago
I don't think this is the case. You're imposing Western values on a Russian offering services in Russia, on a Russian platform. If you haven't used VK before, I strongly suggest you do so. Have a look at the Music and Video sections for a bit of an idea of Russian appreciation for copyright. And I don't really blame them for this. Do you remember the time when copying tapes/DVDs was very new and pretty much everyone was doing it? Do you remember those bootleg DVDs from Asia? Few people cared, there was little to no publicity about how it was bad and "stealing" for a good few years. Then came the ads on DVDs and in cinemas about how it was stealing, articles in the news about how it was hurting industry and such. In the west we were taught that copyright was good and the impact it had on the content creators. In Russia they were not. They just don't think about it the same way we do and you can't make assumptions about their character for that any more than they can make assumptions about Americans for the things that are different in American culture.

humanrebar 10y ago

> I’d also removed the posts that were obviously copyrighted. I'm not a lawyer, but in American copyright law, anything published is assumed copyrighted by someone, though it may not be clear exactly who. I'm especially not an international copyright lawyer, so I can't say how typical that is. Point being, you'll get in legal trouble for doing this. You might win a lawsuit if what you are scraping is not copyrightable (raw facts). Anyway, OP might not be in the US, so maybe all this doesn't apply, but it's generally good manners to ask someone before you copy their work, yes.

ClassyJacket 10y ago
Same is true in Australia. Copyrights are not registered. You just automatically own the copyright to anything you write unless there's a specific reason not to. You don't have to go register it, you don't have to put a copyright notice. You own the copyright as soon as you create it.
jorams 10y ago
Because of the Berne Convention[1], that's how it works in the vast majority of the world. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
mskvsk 10y ago
> it's generally good manners to ask someone before you copy their work, yes This is what I do most of the time, if it's possible, given the environment the service operates in. I encourage people to learn about it first, and only after that to jump into conclusions.
staticautomatic 10y ago
I believe that in the US you don't have to register the copyright, but if you don't, then you can only recover statutory infringement damages in a lawsuit.
brudgers 10y ago
Google is in the US. The rest of this post is left as an exercise for the reader.

mskvsk 10y ago

Good point. I prefer to do at least something addressing the issue in the ecosystem that does absolutely nothing, though. And I'm open about it.

xiaoma 10y ago

> "Other things you must hate: morality and ethics." I'm less impressed with your own ethics than those of the OP. The OP made a tool that served a market niche in a country that isn't so wealthy and then shared the story here to help other makers. You've taken exception with one small piece of the story and expanded it to claim the poster "must hate morality and ethics". While it's a bit of a rabbit hole to get into ethics of the copyright and IP regime of the US and allies, it's worth keeping in mind that even multiple US legal scholars have expressed concerns—from Jefferson (who wrote at length about IP before drafting US law) to Lessig now. It's certainly not so clear cut as to justify vilifying those who disagree. This goes doubly so, considering the poster did this in a country that has only fairly recently caved to international pressure to "harmonize" its copyright enforcement. The OP's project was built on VK, where downloads of copyrighted videos and songs were offered by the platform itself until very recently.

jsumrall 10y ago
The tool OP made is neither technically challenging or interesting. The story is about what the tool was for, which is certainly not one small piece. These types of stories are great and motivational, but not when it promotes people who are looking for inspiration to turn to stealing content and selling access to it. Just because this kind of stuff is common in other countries or cultures doesn't change my opinion about it being wrong.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- mskvsk 10y ago
  Well, your opinion won't change this kind of stuff in other countries either. Your actions will, though.
  - jsumrall 10y ago
    Exactly, which is why I think it's important to point out when something is wrong rather than try to promote it as an example for others to follow. Sure, feel free to continue. Just don't come here looking for praise. edit: *praise from everyone. It seems some people are impressed. Congrats.

wopwopwop 10y ago

Some people talk, some people do.

patrickg_zill 10y ago

Russia in general has very lax attitudes towards copyright and did not even join the Berne Convention until 1995.

mnm1 10y ago

I don't see why you have to attack the article's author. If you disagree with what he does, it might actually be interesting to read why. Instead you attack him from a moral high ground you don't even hold, assuming he is doing something immoral or unethical when he simply disagrees with your values. Someone who disagrees with your values isn't necessarily immoral or unethical just because they disagree with you.

Veratyr 10y ago

I don't think this is the case. You're imposing Western values on a Russian offering services in Russia, on a Russian platform. If you haven't used VK before, I strongly suggest you do so. Have a look at the Music and Video sections for a bit of an idea of Russian appreciation for copyright. And I don't really blame them for this. Do you remember the time when copying tapes/DVDs was very new and pretty much everyone was doing it? Do you remember those bootleg DVDs from Asia? Few people cared, there was little to no publicity about how it was bad and "stealing" for a good few years. Then came the ads on DVDs and in cinemas about how it was stealing, articles in the news about how it was hurting industry and such. In the west we were taught that copyright was good and the impact it had on the content creators. In Russia they were not. They just don't think about it the same way we do and you can't make assumptions about their character for that any more than they can make assumptions about Americans for the things that are different in American culture.