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Could H-1B be more effective? Yes. It could definitely be more fair to the visa holder and do a better job of attracting and retaining the most skilled workers.

by ansy 10y ago

Could H-1B be more effective? Yes. It could definitely be more fair to the visa holder and do a better job of attracting and retaining the most skilled workers. But I also think it's totally wrong to say we don't have a technology labor shortage. The best evidence of this are the salary numbers for people with math and science degrees. It's not because physics and math suddenly got more valuable. It's because tech is so starved for labor it's hiring people from different disciplines to do the job and it's actually brought the average salaries in line with CS and engineering graduates. Also, even if we had an adequate national labor supply, the job opportunities are not distributed proportional to population density. The density of technology jobs is highly concentrated in a few parts of the country, but we are producing qualified engineers everywhere. And not everyone is willing or able to move.

chroem- 10y ago
>But I also think it's totally wrong to say we don't have a technology labor shortage. The best evidence of this are the salary numbers for people with math and science degrees. It's not because physics and math suddenly got more valuable. It's because tech is so starved for labor it's hiring people from different disciplines to do the job and it's actually brought the average salaries in line with CS and engineering graduates. This series of claims is so different from the reality that myself and many others have observed that I don't even know where to begin. Physics graduates are literally jumping off of buildings because of how poor their employment prospects are. Can you provide any sources for the statements you just made?
- ansy 10y ago
  http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/majors-that-pay-you-back/bachelors http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/majors-that-pa... #11 Physics & Mathematics $56,200 starting, $111,000 mid-career Compare that to Computer Science # 5 Computer Science (CS) & Engineering, starting $71,200, mid-career $116,000 Also, I work with and have interviewed many people with physics and math degrees. Granted, there's some sampling bias going on there. But the ones I know didn't really have prospects actually using their degrees in their respective fields unless they got a phd and went into academia. So they all went into tech one way or another.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
lowbloodsugar 10y ago
There is a luxury yacht shortage. I say this because I want to run a luxury yacht business and I'm unable to buy a luxury yacht for the $10 that I have in my pocket. There is a Ferrari shortage because I want to start a "Uber With Ferraris" business, and I'm unable to buy a Ferrari with the $10 that I have in my pocket. There is a developer shortage because I want to start a software business and I am unable to buy a developer with the $10 that I have in my pocket. There are no shortages. There is capitalism and the market. If salaries rise so that My Brilliant Idea Co is unable to hire a software developer, that just means that My Brilliant Idea Co isn't valued by VCs or Angels such that they can afford to hire the necessary people. My company was unable to hire people. When it increased offers by 40%, suddenly it could hire people.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Thank you. The supply of employees is only constrained by employers' willingness to pay. At the current prevailing wages, supply is not meeting demand. This does not necessarily mean there is a shortage.
  - nostrebored 10y ago
    I know tons of people my age who wanted to go into computer science. They failed out, lacked the dedication it took to make up for missing skills, etc. The wages are making people try, but the field is difficult.
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      Increased wages could also pull people back into software engineering who are skilled but left for more lucrative fields (or careers with better upward paths).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- HeavenBanned 10y ago
  Why is it so difficult for this very simple reasoning to prevail in discourse about tech? Relatedly, why is the myth so persistent?

by ansy 10y ago

chroem- 10y ago

>But I also think it's totally wrong to say we don't have a technology labor shortage. The best evidence of this are the salary numbers for people with math and science degrees. It's not because physics and math suddenly got more valuable. It's because tech is so starved for labor it's hiring people from different disciplines to do the job and it's actually brought the average salaries in line with CS and engineering graduates. This series of claims is so different from the reality that myself and many others have observed that I don't even know where to begin. Physics graduates are literally jumping off of buildings because of how poor their employment prospects are. Can you provide any sources for the statements you just made?

ansy 10y ago
http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/majors-that-pay-you-back/bachelors http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/majors-that-pa... #11 Physics & Mathematics $56,200 starting, $111,000 mid-career Compare that to Computer Science # 5 Computer Science (CS) & Engineering, starting $71,200, mid-career $116,000 Also, I work with and have interviewed many people with physics and math degrees. Granted, there's some sampling bias going on there. But the ones I know didn't really have prospects actually using their degrees in their respective fields unless they got a phd and went into academia. So they all went into tech one way or another.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

lowbloodsugar 10y ago

There is a luxury yacht shortage. I say this because I want to run a luxury yacht business and I'm unable to buy a luxury yacht for the $10 that I have in my pocket. There is a Ferrari shortage because I want to start a "Uber With Ferraris" business, and I'm unable to buy a Ferrari with the $10 that I have in my pocket. There is a developer shortage because I want to start a software business and I am unable to buy a developer with the $10 that I have in my pocket. There are no shortages. There is capitalism and the market. If salaries rise so that My Brilliant Idea Co is unable to hire a software developer, that just means that My Brilliant Idea Co isn't valued by VCs or Angels such that they can afford to hire the necessary people. My company was unable to hire people. When it increased offers by 40%, suddenly it could hire people.

ryandrake 10y ago
Thank you. The supply of employees is only constrained by employers' willingness to pay. At the current prevailing wages, supply is not meeting demand. This does not necessarily mean there is a shortage.
- nostrebored 10y ago
  I know tons of people my age who wanted to go into computer science. They failed out, lacked the dedication it took to make up for missing skills, etc. The wages are making people try, but the field is difficult.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    Increased wages could also pull people back into software engineering who are skilled but left for more lucrative fields (or careers with better upward paths).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
HeavenBanned 10y ago
Why is it so difficult for this very simple reasoning to prevail in discourse about tech? Relatedly, why is the myth so persistent?