7 ms·

This comment reeks of victim blaming. Nobody who voted for Trump and Pence should be allowed to escape being held accountable for what they support. If their "e

This comment reeks of victim blaming. Nobody who voted for Trump and Pence should be allowed to escape being held accountable for what they support. If their "economic anxiety" was bad enough that they can ignore the rights of LGBT people and religious minorities, then they are all the more guilty. Those people were never centrists and knew exactly who they voted for.

Groxx 10y ago
So by voting you're responsible for everything the person you voted for does? That leads to nobody but the extremes voting. Has there ever been a candidate who even talked 100% of what you would approve of? If no, why did you vote (or have you ever)?
- 467568985476 10y ago
  Come on, banning Muslims was a _key campaign point_. He talked about it all the time during the primaries and the general election. So yes, I do hold people accountable for voting for this.
  - Groxx 10y ago
    Every candidate has had key points that I've fundamentally disagreed with. And taken actions I fundamentally disagree with, which is even worse than campaign talking-points. Should I vote? Edit: to be clear, I do think Trump is (and was) much further down the extreme side than others have been in recent history. But what you're advocating for does not make sense.
scrollaway 10y ago
You focus so much on holding people accountable rather than prevention. Lay off seeking justice for a while, try to seek order instead. Listen to why people voted Trump rather than call them all bigots and justify it with "they knew what they were getting into". As a european who truly despises Trump: This idea that you're too busy blaming people for being racist to spend time listening to them is honestly frightening. One day perhaps in your lifetime, there'll be a candidate, populist like Trump but with extreme-left ideals and you'll be duped, just like the people you refuse to listen to were duped, because when there was time to learn you chose to be vengeful instead.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Lay off seeking justice for a while Dude, I'm also European and I've spent 25 years listening to and debating with conservative people - in person, on the net, at academic gatherings and many other places. I have studied a wide variety of conservative philosophies and social groups. At what point are you OK with me drawing some conclusions, even temporary working conclusions that I might have to alter later? When I hear comments like this, the overriding impression I have is that thinking about this stuff is rather new to you and you are hesitating out of uncertainty. But it's a mistake to assume that people with stronger opinions than your own have not put in the hours to think through the issues.
  - Groxx 10y ago
    Valid, but I think it comes mostly from the loudest people being the ones that haven't done so. They're the ones that need attention, because they're driving so many personal attacks (which largely make people more extreme, not less). As always, there are exceptions (like you). Which is broadly what the comment was claiming - Trump voters are not 100% made up of nazis, in essence.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      Germany wasn't 100% made up of Nazi supporters either. That didn't stop disaster. A Trump voter that votes Trump because of some economic point also votes in support of all the other policies that Trump stands for and so carries fractional responsibility.
      - Groxx 10y ago
        Sure. But it doesn't mean we condemn all Germans. Other threads in here are basically suggesting we confront every German we see about Hitler's atrocities. What will that accomplish? edit: a good chunk of this is that all this sets up "damned if you do, damned if you don't, double-damned if you choose the winning side". This doesn't encourage more people to get involved, it just drives them away from trying. That's the exact opposite of what we need.
kinghajj 10y ago
How do you propose Trump voters be "held accountable" for their vote?

Groxx 10y ago

So by voting you're responsible for everything the person you voted for does? That leads to nobody but the extremes voting. Has there ever been a candidate who even talked 100% of what you would approve of? If no, why did you vote (or have you ever)?

467568985476 10y ago
Come on, banning Muslims was a _key campaign point_. He talked about it all the time during the primaries and the general election. So yes, I do hold people accountable for voting for this.
- Groxx 10y ago
  Every candidate has had key points that I've fundamentally disagreed with. And taken actions I fundamentally disagree with, which is even worse than campaign talking-points. Should I vote? Edit: to be clear, I do think Trump is (and was) much further down the extreme side than others have been in recent history. But what you're advocating for does not make sense.

scrollaway 10y ago

You focus so much on holding people accountable rather than prevention. Lay off seeking justice for a while, try to seek order instead. Listen to why people voted Trump rather than call them all bigots and justify it with "they knew what they were getting into". As a european who truly despises Trump: This idea that you're too busy blaming people for being racist to spend time listening to them is honestly frightening. One day perhaps in your lifetime, there'll be a candidate, populist like Trump but with extreme-left ideals and you'll be duped, just like the people you refuse to listen to were duped, because when there was time to learn you chose to be vengeful instead.

anigbrowl 10y ago
Lay off seeking justice for a while Dude, I'm also European and I've spent 25 years listening to and debating with conservative people - in person, on the net, at academic gatherings and many other places. I have studied a wide variety of conservative philosophies and social groups. At what point are you OK with me drawing some conclusions, even temporary working conclusions that I might have to alter later? When I hear comments like this, the overriding impression I have is that thinking about this stuff is rather new to you and you are hesitating out of uncertainty. But it's a mistake to assume that people with stronger opinions than your own have not put in the hours to think through the issues.
- Groxx 10y ago
  Valid, but I think it comes mostly from the loudest people being the ones that haven't done so. They're the ones that need attention, because they're driving so many personal attacks (which largely make people more extreme, not less). As always, there are exceptions (like you). Which is broadly what the comment was claiming - Trump voters are not 100% made up of nazis, in essence.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    Germany wasn't 100% made up of Nazi supporters either. That didn't stop disaster. A Trump voter that votes Trump because of some economic point also votes in support of all the other policies that Trump stands for and so carries fractional responsibility.
    - Groxx 10y ago
      Sure. But it doesn't mean we condemn all Germans. Other threads in here are basically suggesting we confront every German we see about Hitler's atrocities. What will that accomplish? edit: a good chunk of this is that all this sets up "damned if you do, damned if you don't, double-damned if you choose the winning side". This doesn't encourage more people to get involved, it just drives them away from trying. That's the exact opposite of what we need.

kinghajj 10y ago

How do you propose Trump voters be "held accountable" for their vote?